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Yes, it's a viable option that increase charging options

2 (40%)

Maybe - Can be hit or miss, so consider it a plan B

2 (40%)

Probably not worth planning for relying upon (a TeslaTap Mini might come in handy if you get lucky)

1 (20%)

Not even worth considering, practically speaking.  Save your time and money.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5

[scottwstevenson]

Sorry if this has been addressed before, hidden in a related thread. (Search didn't quite give me the info. I was looking for.)

I've got a 2020 DSR and I'm working with some EVTricity chargers that in total allow me to approach 1C charging if I use two Level 2 (J1772) stations simultaneously:

1.) 1 x 3.3kW EVTricity charger installed at the controller with a second connection running to the OEM charger.  This will give me about 5kW from the Level 2's I've tried.  (I've got this charger mounted in the "tank" storage area, safe from the weather, but also leaving me room to store things in there, too but without a bottomless pit where stuff get's lost in the bottom of the storage area.  Very handy, esp. b/c I replaced the OEM key lock with a combo lock, so I can access without my key, i.e. if I need to get in there at a stop on the road and want to leave the key in the bike.

2.) 6.6 kW Evtricity charger I have in a hardcase (mounted once but didn't like and have a mounting solution to the dropbars I'll post up when finished if interested - not terribly aerodynamic however.. LOL).  This will get me another 6+kW wired into the accessory (anderson) port.

What I'd like to do is make use of Tesla destination chargers as an option - if these are really an option that I could access with some reliability and ease (not having to arrange use with a hotel manager, etc. in an inconvenient way), so that I could just pull from a *single* Tesla destination charger (not supercharger of course) EVSE using this handy dandy device (and bypass the J1772 connection):

http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=17&product_id=145

(I'd use 4 cables to connect to my EV Tricity chargers and OEM charger, bypassing a J1772 connection.  I think that the above product will allow me to pull upwards of 10kW, assuming I can get 10-12A through each outlet at 220V coming from the Tesla EVSE. Otherwise I might ask the folks at TeslaTap if they could construct a Tesla -> dual J1772 adaptor for me.)

I'm not a Tesla owner and would be going by the Chargepoint and google maps to find the Tesla destination stations, unless there's another mapping solution?...

I know some folks use the Teslatap (or Lectron) Tesla -> J1772 adapters and make use of Tesla destination charging stations a good bit but this could be because they've scouted out stations they can rely upon, so I'm wondering:

If doing "long distance" traveling (various destinations and areas in the US) where at least 1-2 charge stops / trip would be needed, am I likely to be able to make good use of the Tesla destination stations on the fly, not being a tesla customer owner, to reduce charge time and significantly broaden my charge stop options, given how relatively ubiquitous Tesla stations are generally?...  Or I am p*$$ing in the wind thinking I'm going to be able to roll up as a non-hotel guest / non-Tesla owner and charge at a Tesla destination charger. (Naturally, I'd make a purchase - lunch or at least some drinks / snacks - at the business associated with the charging station, as a offering of thanks.)

I'm also presuming that the these Tesla level 2 stations generally charge at 10kW or 16kW (just what I've read) so a single Tesla EVSE would be to my advantage to make use of both the Evtricity chargers I have.  (I'm thinking that rolling into a Tesla station on an EV motorcycle and taking up two EVSE's with a non-Tesla vehicle might not make a Tesla owner particularly happy, which I can understand!  LOL)

Thanks for any insights!

-Scott

[MVetter]

Because you're tapping into their 'proprietary' network you're not guaranteed success in charging. There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session. The stations also vary wildly in terms of output, from 3kW-18kW. I check on stations using Tesla's map to see what they're listed as, but it's not reliable. https://www.tesla.com/findus

For example, there's a winery near me listed on that map that shows the stations output 10kW but I've never seen more than 4 out of them. I've tested with a Zero, an Energica, and an actual Tesla.

Also, at least here on the West Coast, Destination station owners *tend* not to mind us motorcyclists using their stations, but it's not a guarantee. I'm told on the East Coast that generally station owners expect you to pay a fee or, in the case of hotels, may not let you use unless you're an actual guest.

[scottwstevenson]

MVetter,

Thank you for that. 

Sounds too me from what you're saying that grabbing a 40A Teslatap (or similar) is a more reasonable solution.  Don't expect much from Tesla Destination chargers, esp. in terms of output, but it's a nice plan B.

The official map shows more than Chargepoint or googlemaps, at least in my area (FL).  A couple are near me so I might swing by today and get the lay of the land.

Do know if there an interface (board/chip) would be needed to port two J1772 connectors from a Tesla-> J1772 adapter?... If not, the most compact solution (for my situation) I think would be to simply splice another J1772 to an existing adapter and then be able (Tesla EVSE willing) to pull more than 6kW into my bike.

(Thanks again!)

-Scot

[MVetter]

I don't know how the EVTricity units were routed to the J1772 inlets, but I'd be looking into how to make your own Y adapters. When I ran 4 digiNow units on my SR to Tesla stations that's exactly how I did it. Just split the connection 4 ways. Wasn't pretty but I loved pulling 13.2kW.

[scottwstevenson]

Nice!!!

So you just spliced the Tesla adapter four ways with no intermediate interface, it sounds like and routed through the Diginow charge system.


My current set up is like this, if I'd want to charge near 12kW

             
J1772 #1 --> A) C19 into EVtricity  Charger --> Battery terminals (3.3+kW) &   B)  C13 into Bike's OEM Charger (1+kW)

J1772 #2 --> 2 x 3.3 EVTricity Charger --> Accessory (Anderson) charging port:


Sounds like from your experience I could  take a Tesla tap, and splice in another J1772 Connector:

SINGLE Tesla EVSE --> Tesla Adapter with extra J1772 male spliced in -->  #1 J1772  &  #2  J1772  per the above (and allow the chargers to pull current from what the EVSE can provide without any intermediate circuitry needed between the EVSE and the J1772's).



-S

[MVetter]

Yeah once you complete the handshake the station just lets the juice flow, and if the juice is flowing it'll power up your chargers and feed the bike.

[DonTom]

Because you're tapping into their 'proprietary' network you're not guaranteed success in charging. There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session. The stations also vary wildly in terms of output, from 3kW-18kW. I check on stations using Tesla's map to see what they're listed as, but it's not reliable. https://www.tesla.com/findus

For example, there's a winery near me listed on that map that shows the stations output 10kW but I've never seen more than 4 out of them. I've tested with a Zero, an Energica, and an actual Tesla.

Also, at least here on the West Coast, Destination station owners *tend* not to mind us motorcyclists using their stations, but it's not a guarantee. I'm told on the East Coast that generally station owners expect you to pay an fee or, in the case of hotels, may not let you use unless you're an actual guest.

What I have noticed is the newer  Tesla "Wall Connectors" always work with a Tesla Tap, such as the two I own at two different locations. But I often have to wait a full minute or longer to get it to activate, not the 30 seconds Tesla-Tap claims. Best to wait 1.5 minutes, if you don't want to waste even more time.  And if it is tried before that full 1.5  minutes and doesn't work, the Tesla-Tap has to have the power removed and a new start with a new 1.5  minutes (or longer) wait.


I do have an issue when I use my Elcons with the 16KW Tesla Destination stations. They shut off on me in about five minutes. Do you have any idea what causes this to happen?


You can see my check-ins here and here. 


I do NOT have this issue using the same Tesla-Tap and same Tesla Destination Station with my Energica, which is a much more standard set-up.


And this item does NOT help with this problem.


While I assume there is nothing I can do to fix this issue, do you know what causes the five minute time-out when I use my Elcons on the 16 KW stations?


BTW, there is an exception and I have no idea why. When I use the 16 KW Tesla Destination station located here, it works fine on my SR with the same two Elcons and doesn't time out.


Do you have any idea what the cause could be?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[scottwstevenson]

Don,

I think MVetter may have addressed this variation Tesla charger performance in his first post:

"There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session."

Perhaps you can track your experiences back to whichever generation Tesla station you're using?... (I have no idea how ID a Tesla station wrt generation, though...)

-S

[DonTom]

Don,

I think MVetter may have addressed this variation Tesla charger performance in his first post:

"There are at least 4 generations of Destination stations. The gen 1 stainless steel boxes almost always work, but they're rare. Gen 2 also work 99% of the time. Gen 3 and 4 tend to have around 50% success rate, meaning they may not ever enable or they may stop a few seconds or minutes into the session."

Perhaps you can track your experiences back to whichever generation Tesla station you're using?... (I have no idea how ID a Tesla station wrt generation, though...)

-S

I saw that post before I posted my message. That only explains it happens, but not why it happens. What I want to know is what is the cause. What is the Tesla Destination station NOT seeing that it wants to see?  Technically, what causes the shut down. IOW, could it be something like no pilot signal being detected and then shuts down?  Could it be because the 6KW load is lower than a 16KW station expects to see? What does the Tesla Destination stations want to detect to NOT shut down in five minutes?  I mean besides an actual Tesla. What does the Tesla car provide that the Tesla-Tap and load doesn't?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[scottwstevenson]

I saw that post before I posted my message. That only explains it happens, but not why it happens. What I want to know is what is the cause. What is the Tesla Destination station NOT seeing that it wants to see?  Technically, what causes the shut down. IOW, could it be something like no pilot signal being detected and then shuts down?  Could it be because the 6KW load is lower than a 16KW station expects to see? What does the Tesla Destination stations want to detect to NOT shut down in five minutes?  I mean besides an actual Tesla. What does the Tesla car provide that the Tesla-Tap and load doesn't?


-Don-  Reno, NV
[/quote]

Don,

Absolutely - I follow you as to figuring out the why, but was simply suggesting that if we found that the issue was matter of station generation, we could then discriminate from differences in technology between the different generation chargers why, for example, a Gen 1 or 2 works for you, whereas a Gen 3 does not (for a Zero)

All of those ideas make sense, for sure.  Perhaps a Tesla drops to below 6kW when it's nearly at full capacity, as you suggest, and the newer Gen stations detect that and shut off as a secondary safeguard to overcharging, whereas the earlier generation stations relied upon the vehicle more so to monitor it's own state of charge.

Differences in pilot signal awareness x generation also makes sense.    (Differences in patterns of charging among bike brands that are detected could also be at work as you note!  LOL)

Then, before even heading to a destination charger, knowing the generation of the station could be handy, as well as help figure out how to coax the EVSE into continue charging.   (But what a PITA it might be(?) to have to have different charging strategies depending on the generation of Tesla destination charger you happen upon... LOL)

Totally with you though!  Was thinking first isolate the problem (if a generational one) and then look to generational differences to elucidate the mechanisms of the issue. 

-S

[DonTom]

Even if it drops out in five minutes. it can still be used, just make sure to come back every five minutes and disconnect the Tesla Tap for  90 seconds each time. It is a time consuming hassle, but it is still helpful with my Zero DS charging at 6.3 KW or my SR charging at around 8KW to help to get to the next place I can find a J-plug.


At five  minutes each time at 8 KW, I can still get quite a bit of charging done. But it sure would be better if I didn't have to come back every five minutes.



-Don-   Reno, NV

[scottwstevenson]

Even if it drops out in five minutes. it can still be used, just make sure to come back every five minutes and disconnect the Tesla Tap for  90 seconds each time. It is a time consuming hassle, but it is still helpful with my Zero DS charging at 6.3 KW or my SR charging at around 8KW to help to get to the next place I can find a J-plug.

At five  minutes each time at 8 KW, I can still get quite a bit of charging done. But it sure would be better if I didn't have to come back every five minutes.

-Don-   Reno, NV

Makes sense!  The 8kW at 5 min on / 90s off makes it more like 5-6kW, which isn't bad.

Dave over at Teslatap is putting together a Tesla --> 2 x J1772 port Zero bike buddy box for me (with an Amp display so I can figure out what's goin on if I'm having problems).   I'll give it a go when he gets it to me and report back.

-Scott

[DonTom]

Makes sense!  The 8kW at 5 min on / 90s off makes it more like 5-6kW, which isn't bad.

Dave over at Teslatap is putting together a Tesla --> 2 x J1772 port Zero bike buddy box for me (with an Amp display so I can figure out what's goin on if I'm having problems).   I'll give it a go when he gets it to me and report back.

-Scott

I plan on going to USA Parkway tomorrow to do some experimenting on my Zero DS. The Tesla Destination stations there could be shutting off because of the slight imbalance common in perhaps most Zeros. IOW, a slight ground fault. I am going to bring modified adapters so no part of my OBC or Elcon chargers have a path the ground and then see if they still shut down in five to ten minutes.





-Don-  Reno, NV

[scottwstevenson]

I saw your post, Don! Sounds like you think it may be a matter of the Elcons you're using...

Dave at Tesla tap was exceedingly accommodating when I called to find a solution for my charging issue. He might be able to help you try to troubleshoot as well…

I'm using EVTricity Chargers, so we'll see how they do!

-S

[DonTom]

I saw your post, Don! Sounds like you think it may be a matter of the Elcons you're using...

Dave at Tesla tap was exceedingly accommodating when I called to find a solution for my charging issue. He might be able to help you try to troubleshoot as well…

I'm using EVTricity Chargers, so we'll see how they do!

-S

I am fairly sure I have my issue figured out and I know how to prove it and take care of it.


It wasn't what I expected, but the evidence clearly shows it is the electrical noise on the AC plugs of the Elcons. Something I didn't even think about until I did my  experiments. Ground fault issues are ruled out, which was what I was expecting at first.


I will later post another message soon about trying to charge Zeros on hot days (100F here in Reno today). I am still not home, but only ten miles away and still cannot charge because of the heat.


-Don- (Tamarack Junction, Reno, NV)