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[Richard230]

What I find interesting about this new electric motorcycle design are all of the (apparent) cooling vents on the front and sides of the bike. https://electricmotorcycles.news/first-preview-of-the-ts-bravo-from-alrendo-motorcycles-at-e-center-in-the-netherlands/

[Starpower]

I like it! No specs though....

[TheRan]

I made a thread on this back in January, plenty of specs there and if it can do what it promises it looks like a very good bike.

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10777

Also some specs posted on their new site, weight has gone up about 50kg

https://www.alrendo.com/ts-bravo-specs

[princec]

It actually looks pretty neat. The specs ring true for a change, and it's got realistic real-world performance. The only big question mark is whether they will (or can) price it to compete with ICE. (Bearing in mind it's competing with 125s they don't have a lot of wiggle room there...)

Cas

[TheRan]

It's not really competing with 125s, it's just (apparently) able to be ridden on an A1 licence. It's much more powerful, heavier, and at least twice the cost of the most expensive 125s.

[Richard230]

I made a thread on this back in January, plenty of specs there and if it can do what it promises it looks like a very good bike.

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10777

Also some specs posted on their new site, weight has gone up about 50kg

https://www.alrendo.com/ts-bravo-specs

From looking at their site it does seem as if they have a well developed product and one that is pretty much comparable to a Zero S with regard to performance. Now they need to focus on setting up retail outlets, distribution, technician training, advertising, mass production, etc.  All things that have befuddled many electric motorcycle startups in the past.

[princec]

It says 11KW though, so, that's 125 territory. With the added caveats of being almost exactly double the weight and no doubt price.

Cas

[stevenh]

The riding position looks perfect to me (upright).

Steve

[TheRan]

It says 11KW though, so, that's 125 territory. With the added caveats of being almost exactly double the weight and no doubt price.

Cas

It's 11kW continuous but peak is 58kW (75hp) which actually puts it on par with a Zero SR (70hp). It's the same as how Zero now has 11kW models but they still peak at the same ~33kW/44hp. It's the reason the top speed is so low at 83mph (the 11kW Zeros are limited to 86mph), my understanding is the continuous power output is based on how much power is needed to maintain a certain percentage of the top speed.

So, as I said in the other thread you're looking at SR levels of power, a higher battery capacity, and faster charging (than the OBC, slower than a charge tank though) for less than the cost of a 7.2kW/h non-R model.

[princec]

Hm, where did you see a price? I must have missed it.

Cas

[TheRan]

I think it was on their old site which doesn't work anymore, a few other sites say it's gonna be €10k though.

https://www.ecenter.network/en-gb/alrendo-motorcycles
https://electrek.co/2021/01/18/alrenddo-ts-bravo-europe-low-cost-electric-motorcycle/
https://www.rideapart.com/news/465782/alrendo-ts-bravo-electric-bike-europe/

[wavelet]

It says 11KW though, so, that's 125 territory. With the added caveats of being almost exactly double the weight and no doubt price.

Cas

It's 11kW continuous but peak is 58kW (75hp) which actually puts it on par with a Zero SR (70hp). It's the same as how Zero now has 11kW models but they still peak at the same ~33kW/44hp. It's the reason the top speed is so low at 83mph (the 11kW Zeros are limited to 86mph), my understanding is the continuous power output is based on how much power is needed to maintain a certain percentage of the top speed.

This reminds me of something I've been wondering about... According to the specs, the Euro Zero S can hold peak HP (or close enough) for long enough to accelerate extremely quickly and reach quite high speeds -- 109 Nm, 59HP peak, 86 mph (139 km/h) top speed.

The SR with the same sustained "11KW" (A2 license) is even more --  157Nm, 70HP peak, 102mph (163 km/h).
People who have the bikes here say that they seem to be getting this levle of performance.

That's obviously way beyond what the  whole tiered licensing system is supposed to allow -- riding an A1 bike doesn't even require any 2-wheeled training at all -- a car license is sufficient. The category was intended for <125cc bikes.

Zero seems to be relying on this giant loophole for sales in multiple countries (including mine), and other manufacturers seem to be following suit .
Isn't it likely that thsi loophole will be eliminated, and sooner rather than later (e.g., by allowing >11KW for say 5 seconds at most, or simply changing the "sustained" wording to "peak")?

[Crissa]

The S defaults to the lower acceleration, which is what makes it an excellent training bike.

The other bikes at that level are much lighter and can loop themselves, something you can't do with an S.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

It says 11KW though, so, that's 125 territory. With the added caveats of being almost exactly double the weight and no doubt price.

Cas

It's 11kW continuous but peak is 58kW (75hp) which actually puts it on par with a Zero SR (70hp). It's the same as how Zero now has 11kW models but they still peak at the same ~33kW/44hp. It's the reason the top speed is so low at 83mph (the 11kW Zeros are limited to 86mph), my understanding is the continuous power output is based on how much power is needed to maintain a certain percentage of the top speed.

This reminds me of something I've been wondering about... According to the specs, the Euro Zero S can hold peak HP (or close enough) for long enough to accelerate extremely quickly and reach quite high speeds -- 109 Nm, 59HP peak, 86 mph (139 km/h) top speed.

The SR with the same sustained "11KW" (A2 license) is even more --  157Nm, 70HP peak, 102mph (163 km/h).
People who have the bikes here say that they seem to be getting this levle of performance.

That's obviously way beyond what the  whole tiered licensing system is supposed to allow -- riding an A1 bike doesn't even require any 2-wheeled training at all -- a car license is sufficient. The category was intended for <125cc bikes.

Zero seems to be relying on this giant loophole for sales in multiple countries (including mine), and other manufacturers seem to be following suit .
Isn't it likely that thsi loophole will be eliminated, and sooner rather than later (e.g., by allowing >11KW for say 5 seconds at most, or simply changing the "sustained" wording to "peak")?

Zero don't give a continuous power output for the R models from what I can see, but it is indeed lower than the 70hp peak and thus able to be ridden on an A2 licence which would restrict a gas bike to 47hp.

I don't really know if they will close the loophole or if they'd even be able to. One problem is what happens with all the bikes that are already on the road, will an A1 licence holder still be able to ride them? Will another A1 holder be able to ride the same bike if they buy it used? Will it depend on when the rider got their licence (before or after the change to the legislation)?

The second problem is there's a reason why electric bikes are rated on continuous power and not peak, they can't hold peak power for an extended period like a gas bike can. The real issue is the way in which continuous output is defined, assuming my understanding of it is correct. Instead it should be based on the absolute maximum that the motor can sustain for a certain period of time before it overheats and has to reduce power. However this is a hard thing to test and would require a bit of trial and error, plus it would depend on environmental factors.

[reini]

I don't really know if they will close the loophole or if they'd even be able to. One problem is what happens with all the bikes that are already on the road, will an A1 licence holder still be able to ride them? Will another A1 holder be able to ride the same bike if they buy it used? Will it depend on when the rider got their licence (before or after the change to the legislation)?

The second problem is there's a reason why electric bikes are rated on continuous power and not peak, they can't hold peak power for an extended period like a gas bike can. The real issue is the way in which continuous output is defined, assuming my understanding of it is correct. Instead it should be based on the absolute maximum that the motor can sustain for a certain period of time before it overheats and has to reduce power. However this is a hard thing to test and would require a bit of trial and error, plus it would depend on environmental factors.

To the first issue, this has happened in the past several times and once registered, the bike is only bound by the legislation at the time of registration. Otherwise my ICE bike wouldn't pass the emissions test.

To your second point: Not all bikes can do it, but Energicas can due to oil cooling  Your proposed definition is the actual definition of continuous power: 2.4 of https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:42006X1124(03)