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[fredx]

Here's another update: My 2020 Zero SR/F Premium has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, Colorado for over 11 weeks now.  I brought it there in March to fix this problem where it won't charge.

They asked me to come in last month to remove the eMoto Design double-J charging kit.  Fine, I did that, on May 20th.  And now, once again, no progress is being made.  I'm confident the eMoto Design double-J charging kit wasn't the problem -- this problem occurred sporadically before I installed that.  Regardless, neither Zero nor Grand Prix Motorsports appears to be doing anything to solve the problem.

We've had lots of great riding weather.  My 2-year-old top-of-the-line Zero has been out of commission for so long now that I've canceled the insurance.

If I could get a factory service manual, I'd happily fix it myself (I have an electronics background, and a Master's in Computer Science).  But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.

Sorry to share negative experiences, but I don't feel good about keeping this quiet.

Cheers,

 - Fred

Hey! Send us a DM and we would be happy to look into this for you.

I've already phoned you, multiple times.  I'll send a DM shortly.

 - Fred

[fredx]

But Zero won't allow us to fix our own motorcycles.

How can they stop you?  My 2017 SR ABS sensor crapped out during warranty and I replaced it myself instead of bringing  the bike to the dealer.


The charger fan crapped out during the warranty period  in my Energica. Again, I replaced it myself.


I have fixed many problems during the warranty period on bikes. It's less hassle than dealing with the dealers in most cases. Even if I have to pay for the parts myself.


You probably wouldn't need a manual to fix your charging problem--you won't know until you check it out.


-Don-  Reno, NV

How would I check that out, Don?  I am not able to get a factory service manual.

 - Fred

[DonTom]

How would I check that out, Don?  I am not able to get a factory service manual.

 - Freda

I have troubleshot things without a service  manual countless times. I find there is one thing worse than no service manual. That is a service manual with errors in the area you need, that are NOT obvious until you fix the thing!  I find MOST service manuals to contain errors in various places. I have wasted more time because of that than not having a service manual at all. I can tell you plenty of such stories, as I have spent my entire life in electronics.


But it depends on what is wrong. Often, you can tell just by looking, such as a broken or loose connector or whatever. Has the shop even looked at your bike yet? Probably not as this is the peak shop times in many locations.


Also, who makes the charger? Perhaps you can deal with the company that does. I doubt if Zero makes their own chargers for the SR/F.


BTW, there are some manuals that could be helpful. Here is a link to some Zero manuals.


And here is the unofficial Zero manual.


But I don't know if you can find much about the SR/F in either. Or anything similar with the SR/F chargers. I am not at all familiar with the SR/F.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[fredx]

Thanks, Tom.

I brought the bike to the shop in March.  Here in Colorado, that's not the busy time.   

The bike has two 3kW chargers (Premium version, 6kW charging), plus the ChargeTank (12kW total).  I don't know who makes the chargers.

If I plug the bike in, it wakes up, the charge fans come on, no charge current appears (0.0kW), and after a few seconds, the charge fans wind down.

How would I diagnose this?

Thanks for your pointers and tips, but without Zero's support, I'm stuck!

...and yes, I PM'd Zero today in reply to their message.  Nothing heard.

Cheers,

 - Fred

[DonTom]

Thanks, Tom.

I brought the bike to the shop in March.  Here in Colorado, that's not the busy time.   

The bike has two 3kW chargers (Premium version, 6kW charging), plus the ChargeTank (12kW total).  I don't know who makes the chargers.

If I plug the bike in, it wakes up, the charge fans come on, no charge current appears (0.0kW), and after a few seconds, the charge fans wind down.

How would I diagnose this?

Thanks for your pointers and tips, but without Zero's support, I'm stuck!

...and yes, I PM'd Zero today in reply to their message.  Nothing heard.

Cheers,

 - Fred

I would do some experimentation, first, I would simply take a good look at everything with my eyes. Connectors and such.  And if that didn't get me anywhere, I would do things such as disconnect the charge tank cable and see if anything changes when I try to charge. And just by looking, you may find a company name showing who built the chargers and then perhaps deal with them direct.


You have nothing to lose and perhaps a lot to gain.


I will give you a real life example of what happened to me when I first purchased my Energica. And I know I posted about this in this forum a  few years ago.


I first charged it here in Auburn with no hassle at all. All was fine. I ride the bike to my Reno house (99.0 miles) one CCS charge on the way, all was fine.


I get to Reno, use the same type type of Tesla Wall Connector with the same Tesla-Tap that I keep with the bike. It would NOT charge and my SOC was low. I did everything the same as here in Auburn, the only thing that was different was the Tesla Wall Connector, but was the exact same model as here. I could still charge my Zero with it at 6 KW using external chargers. After checking all the dip switches in the Tesla Wall Connector and comparing them to here, they were all set the same in both Wall Connectors. But I was able to get a local fast  charge  then go to a Tesla Destination Charger at a casino and the Energica charged perfectly there with the same Tesla Tap.


But in Reno, where it did NOT work with my Energica (but okay on my Zeros) , I put everything back together and tried it again. It then worked perfectly on my Energica  and never gave a problem again. I assume perhaps a pinched wire or something like that, but I did NOT notice it when inside the unit.  I really have no idea what I did to fix it, but now it has worked with my Energica every time for the last three years.




And BTW, I have no shop manual for my Tesla Wall Connector. Perhaps you could have the same type of luck. If I didn't take my Reno Tesla Wall Connector apart, it still would not work, most likely.



So if something doesn't work, you could even fix it by accident by taking apart as much as you can and putting it all back. But you have to at least try by looking at things.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[NervEasy]

Hi Fredx,

I recently - about a month and a half ago - had the exact same problem. Only difference was that I have no Chargetank. Brought it to my dealer where Zero remotely diagnosed the bike. It seems both 3kw chargers had "lost their serial number" and in typical Zero fashion they could not tell me how or why this happened.

This caused the bike to stop communicating with the chargers over the CANbus.

They replaced both chargers and now everything is ok (with charging).

I can tell that with the old charges I always got an error 37 when disconnecting my chargelead. now with the new chargers this is no longer the case.

At the moment there are more parts replaced on my bike than orignal parts (3rd main battery (!), 12V battery, brake rotors, throttle, 2 chargers, ... . 1 year and 2 months of ownership. And yeah it took a long time to replace all these parts. It was roughly about 2 months riding 1-2 months in garage.

[DonTom]

This caused the bike to stop communicating with the chargers over the CANbus.

I assume even that can be caused by a poor connection somewhere.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

CANbus interconnects with the 2 chargers are easily accesible on the SR/S and SR/F platform. They connect to the same loom and a Y splitter is there already to connect a charge tank upgrade.

Connectors and connections where checked. The new chargers used the existing loom and worked instantly. There was communication on the bus with the chargers but no authentication so no charging.

Both of the old chargers developed the "no authentication" problem at the same time?




-Don-  Auburn, CA

[fredx]

I got a reply to my PM to Zero on this forum; they now say the MBB needs replacement.  They keep telling me to get the current status and updates from the dealer, but the dealer (Grand Prix Motorsports) is unresponsive, typically taking a week or longer to get back to me.  This is nuts!

 - Fred

[DonTom]

I got a reply to my PM to Zero on this forum; they now say the MBB needs replacement.  They keep telling me to get the current status and updates from the dealer, but the dealer (Grand Prix Motorsports) is unresponsive, typically taking a week or longer to get back to me.  This is nuts!

 - Fred

If that is really the case, you will not be able to repair it yourself anyway. So you would have been wasting your time by listening to me.     But at least then you will be a bit more familiar with the bike. 


BTW, do you wonder if the dealer is guessing on what is really wrong and simply replacing things until the problem is fixed?  I have heard some such stories here before.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[fredx]

I had to pester Grand Prix Motorsports service department for an update.  The update is attached, screenshot from the text conversation.

So now they want more money, for a problem that occurred well before the warranty period ran out.

This is all just so amazingly, incredibly bad.  I've been riding motorcycles for well over 40 years, and have never had an experience like this.

 - Fred

[Skidz]

Apart from the shitty customer service, why is he shouting?

[fredx]

Apart from the shitty customer service, why is he shouting?

He always types in all-capitals, like a 1943 teletype machine.   

[fredx]

Sometimes I'm glad these people tell me things by text.  Here's where they told me on April 6th that parts and labor would be covered by Zero.

Sheesh!

 - Fred

[fredx]

Here's the latest: It took nearly 2 weeks for the new MBB to show up from Zero, and it's broken.

This coming Tuesday marks 14 weeks this bike has been in the service department at Grand Prix Motorsports in Littleton, CO.

 - Fred