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[DonTom]

Ultimately this seems to be the path I'm going down. Get the charge tank, and then get some saddle tanks with some chargers. Because I don't do long trips often (never gone more than 35 miles, even on an ICE bike ) I'd like to start, and a temporary removable setup seems best.

If you never do more than 35 miles, why even get extra chargers?


It could make more sense for you to get the power tank, just to add a little range. And then you can still add chargers. I charge my 2017 SR at 8KW on the road and it has a power tank. I have taken several all day trips (>150 miles) on my electrics. But for 35 miles, or 70 miles round trip, if you have the larger battery, you shouldn't need anything else. If I were going only 35 miles, 70 miles round trip, I would not bring anything extra on my SR.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

If you rarely go further, the power tank makes even less sense, don.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

If you rarely go further, the power tank makes even less sense, don.

-Crissa

It helps prevent range anxiety on a 70 mile round trip. Conditions change a little almost every day. Perhaps a head wind one day and the power tank makes the difference.


FWIW, the charge tank is usually  better for  MUCH longer trips than the power tank. Depends on how far.  My SR has better range than my Energica but notice I took the Energica for my trip to Livermore. The power tank is better for shorter long trips as then no recharge is necessary.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[tynxt]

I often see the Elcon/TC chargers recommended in these threads, but it’s still unclear to me how to get one. I’ve been to sites like elconchargers.com — I’m curious what inputs buyers provide to them to end up with an appropriate charger — just the kwh of the battery, and the desired charging wattage? Do they ship them with the Zero battery connector?

[DerKrawallkeks]

They're not shipped with a Zero Adapter, if you buy from China. I bought mine at evcomponents, but there's much faster (and more expensive) places to buy them from the EU.
There was a thread in the last few weeks with the exact details to give to them in order to charge a Zero. Go back one or two pages in the threads:) tell me if you can't find it

[DonTom]

I often see the Elcon/TC chargers recommended in these threads, but it’s still unclear to me how to get one. I’ve been to sites like elconchargers.com — I’m curious what inputs buyers provide to them to end up with an appropriate charger — just the kwh of the battery, and the desired charging wattage? Do they ship them with the Zero battery connector?

Just talk to Sayyed at Elcon  and tell him it's for a Zero. He is the one who programmed mine for both my Zeros.


I wired mine to the motor controller battery contacts. But perhaps you can get a connector to work with your Quick Charger cable if you don't want to wire it in yourself.


Tell him you do not want to bother with the CANBUS BS. But at 95% SOC, your OBC will do all of the charging to 100%. The non-CANBUS  Elcons  will switch off at 95% SOC.  I use that time to put to disconnect and put my Elcon chargers away as the OBC is still charging to 100%.


But it's best for the battery to simply disconnect at 95% SOC anyway when you do not need the extra range, but with an occasional charge to full for better cell balancing.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Kill3rT0fu]

If you rarely go further, the power tank makes even less sense, don.

-Crissa

I was never really adventurous enough to want to. Now that I know the area, I'm wanting to explore the state more and more willing to do it on a bike.

[Crissa]

If you rarely go further, the power tank makes even less sense, don.

I was never really adventurous enough to want to. Now that I know the area, I'm wanting to explore the state more and more willing to do it on a bike.

A Power Tank is a single battery module.  So it just gets a Zero about 25% further..

A Charge Tank is more useful to explore with, as you can recharge to full in just over two hours.  That means with a half hour charge on a compatible charge point you can regain the same energy a Power Tank contains.

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

Yeah, on the Gen2 bikes with their Either/Or configuration a Charge Tank makes a lot more sense for where I live.  There are L2 stations popping up everywhere like mushrooms after a rain storm.  Getting up to 80% is usually an hour or less with my 13kWh battery, enough time for a leisurely lunch or to read a few chapters on my Kindle before continuing on.

If you live where L2 chargers are few and far between then I could see the logic for the Power Tank though.  Bear in mind that the larger the battery capacity, the longer it will take to recharge.  Everything is a compromise.  TANSTAAFL.

[DonTom]

  Bear in mind that the larger the battery capacity, the longer it will take to recharge.  Everything is a compromise.  TANSTAAFL.

Not exactly true. To charge to full, it takes longer. But you get the same distance added per minute of charge. Perhaps even a little better on the larger battery because you have a wider midrange where it can accept a higher current rate when you avoid the upper end.


So other than weight, the larger battery has nothing but advantages. You have a choice to charge to full.


Another advantage is a larger battery on the same load will have a much longer service life.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[JaimeC]

The math isn't adding up.  Charging even to 80% on the larger capacity battery is going to take longer than charging to 80% on the smaller battery.  And if you don't plan on charging it all the way up, what's the point??  Might as well stick with the smaller battery and save the $$$ and weight.

[DonTom]

The math isn't adding up.  Charging even to 80% on the larger capacity battery is going to take longer than charging to 80% on the smaller battery.  And if you don't plan on charging it all the way up, what's the point??  Might as well stick with the smaller battery and save the $$$ and weight.

The math is near perfect. Yes, it takes twice as long (or just a little less) to charge to 80% to get DOUBLE the distance with the larger battery that is double in size.


Yes, get the smaller battery unless the next charge station is past your range. With the larger battery you have the choice. That is the nice thing. You have no such choice with the small battery if you don't have the range to the next charge station. You simply cannot get there.


Seems you're making the mistake that if one has the larger battery they must charge to full. Charge to 50% in the same time as a battery half the size to full. And get the same range, or a little better on the larger battery even then because you don't have the slow down at the end of the SOC.


The only argument for NOT having the larger battery is weight.




And the larger capacity battery will also have a much longer service life.



And my Energica has the smaller battery, so you know I am not being biased by what I own. I certainly would prefer the larger, and I would only rarely then charge to full.


But IMO, more charge locations are more important than a larger battery. But both is best.


They should rate battery charge rate in MPH (miles added per hour of charge). You would then see why the larger double KWH battery is better. More than twice as better.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

If you have the larger battery, you're still stuck charging at 17mph, instead of 60mph with the Charge Tank.

Larger battery doesn't reduce your charging time unless your trip is inside its capacity.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

If you have the larger battery, you're still stuck charging at 17mph, instead of 60mph with the Charge Tank.

Larger battery doesn't reduce your charging time unless your trip is inside its capacity.

-Crissa

The battery charge slows down a lot near the end of the SOC. On both batteries. At around 85% SOC and drops even lower as you get near full. Perhaps down to two KW, about the same as you charge at, where the difference is much less noticeable.


Say we have two different batteries. Say a 10KWH and a 5KWH.


Let's assume the 10 KW is good for 80 miles. 40 miles for the 5 KWH.


Charge both to get 40 miles added range from the same CCS charger.


The ten KWH will be MUCH faster, especially at higher charge rates.


Charge both from a 20 KW charger. The larger battery will be charging at 20 KW at 50% SOC. The smaller battery will be charging from that same charger at 3 KW max at above 90% SOC. The BMS will not allow more than that above 90% SOC.


So the larger battery has to wait for the smaller battery to get done to go the same distance from the same charger.


That makes the larger battery MUCH faster to charge from the same charger for the same distance than from the smaller battery.


The larger battery will also have to be at 90% SOC to slow down, but you will disconnect at 50% for the same distance, when it is still getting the full 20KW, unlike the smaller battery, then getting a 3KW charge from that 20kw Charger.


The slowdown at 90% SOC is very noticeable on Zeros as well when charging at 6KW or above. Near the end, you may as well just use the OBC as there isn't that much difference between the OBC and a 6KW charger at above 90% SOC.


One of the major reasons why I didn't care if my Elcons shut off totally at 95% SOC. So I get 1.4 KWs instead of 2KW at 95% SOC. Not a big deal.


-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[DonTom]

If you have the larger battery, you're still stuck charging at 17mph, instead of 60mph with the Charge Tank.

Larger battery doesn't reduce your charging time unless your trip is inside its capacity.

-Crissa

I see you never thought about the reason they rate charge times to 80% SOC.


It's about the big slowdown above 80% SOC. And gets much worse as you get closer to 100%.


You need some experience on charging at 6KW and above on the road.  It's obvious you have none at all.


-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV