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[DonTom]

Related to evdjerome’s question, if you exceed 1C and the external chargers are plugged into the accessory port will the bike just throttle back its charge tank speed to stay under 1C or will it cut out completely?

IIRC, the battery fuse is 100 amps. 100 amps is 24KW at 240 VAC  so you're unlikely to blow it. But the fuse for  the DeltaQ charger is less, perhaps 50 amps?  Sorry, I am not 100% sure but I think that is correct. Perhaps somebody here can verify.


If you're just a little over 1C, it just means the battery cells will get warmer than they should. Too much of it will be bad for the battery, but I doubt if a little over 1C for a few times will make that big of a difference compared to being just under 1C.


I don't think our Zero BMS will reduce the current for you. But some BMSes in other batteries will.


I have a $1,600.00  12 volt lith battery in my RV to run the house stuff. I could not blow it out if I try. The internal BMS takes care of everything possible. No fuse, but an internal circuit breaker. OTOH, it will never have the type of load our Zero batteries have as we speed up a hill. In fact, it's even very poor as an engine starting battery. It's designed for lighter loads only, but for a very long time. And is rated at 12.8 VDC at 95% discharged. No Lead acid battery can do such when only 5% is left. It's still good for loads such as running an inverter to a 1200 watt MW oven. A lot less current draw than  engine starting or Zero motor. There are different designs of lith batteries, The ones in my RV are Lithium iron phosphate .


EV batteries are quite a bit different.


And so is the BMS.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Don how do you plug in your AC power to these chargers?

[DonTom]

Don how do you plug in your AC power to these chargers?

I made or purchased many types of adapters, so I can charge from anything possible on my trips. J-1772, 14-50R, Tesla Destination, even weird stuff such as here.  Click on the photo and see the 4th photo for a closeup of the outlet there.


I wonder why I am the only check-in there . . . 



The chargers come with the usual  120 VAC USA AC plugs. But I always use them for 240 VAC and AFAIK, they do not make any adapters from 240 VAC to 120 VAC, so I make my own. Such as using one of these, and chopping off the AC plug putting a 14-50P on the input.





-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Ok, wow.
So it comes with a Nema 5-15 plug.  But a 15 amp 110 US outlet only gives you half of the 3.3kw power. 
How can that cord handle the 220V 15amp power from a J plug converter?  Or does it handle it with no problem?
IOW could it plug into the J adapter linked below and power the bike through the Andersen (my preferred method)?

I guess you need one of these like you kinked to.  One plug each for an Elcon and one for the OBC, correct?
https://tucsonev.com/images/Zero/3-x-5-15-Combo.jpg

[DonTom]

I guess you need one of these like you kinked to.  One plug each for an Elcon and one for the OBC, correct?
https://tucsonev.com/images/Zero/3-x-5-15-Combo.jpg

Yes, that is what I use for my J-1772 connections. But with the C-14's. I use them with adapters as necessary. That way I do not have to use the 120 VAC cord for my DeltaQ's or Elcons.


-Don- Reno, NV

[flynnstig82r]

Related to evdjerome’s question, if you exceed 1C and the external chargers are plugged into the accessory port will the bike just throttle back its charge tank speed to stay under 1C or will it cut out completely?

IIRC, the battery fuse is 100 amps. 100 amps is 24KW at 240 VAC  so you're unlikely to blow it. But the fuse for  the DeltaQ charger is less, perhaps 50 amps?  Sorry, I am not 100% sure but I think that is correct. Perhaps somebody here can verify.


If you're just a little over 1C, it just means the battery cells will get warmer than they should. Too much of it will be bad for the battery, but I doubt if a little over 1C for a few times will make that big of a difference compared to being just under 1C.


I don't think our Zero BMS will reduce the current for you. But some BMSes in other batteries will.

So it's possible to exceed 1C with Elcon external chargers plugged into the accessory port? I thought people used the battery terminals on the controller because the accessory port wouldn't allow for that.

[DonTom]

So it's possible to exceed 1C with Elcon external chargers plugged into the accessory port? I thought people used the battery terminals on the controller because the accessory port wouldn't allow for that.

Yes, I would NOT use the accessory port at 1C. That is not designed for 1C, put should be okay at 4KW (same as four DelatQ's).


There is very heavy current draw at the motor controller when the bike is being used at speed going up hill. Many KWs. So it must be capable  of very high current, which will include charging, which will never get anything near the current the motor can safely draw.


Some here are saying if the controller bolts are not torqued correctly, either too tight or too loose, it can cause a fire. I probably have mine a bit over-torqued but it's been that way for years so I am not going to touch it.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[evdjerome]

In the past I've charged two Hollywood Electric 2.5 KW Elcons off the aux port. So 2.5 + 2.5 = 5 KW.

Is there any reason to think two of these 3.3 KW Elcons can't be charged together off of the aux port (6.6 KW)?

[DonTom]

In the past I've charged two Hollywood Electric 2.5 KW Elcons off the aux port. So 2.5 + 2.5 = 5 KW.

Is there any reason to think two of these 3.3 KW Elcons can't be charged together off of the aux port (6.6 KW)?

Zero says there is a four DeltaQ charger limit on those aux ports. That is 4KW.  Above that, well we already know what Zero says, but that doesn't mean it cannot be done, but I would at least want to know the current rating of the charging fuse that is almost impossible to get to. And that still doesn't make it safe.


BTW, did Hollywood Electric say using two of their chargers was okay on the AUX port or did you simply do it on your own?


I would not be comfortable charging from there at 6.3 KW without having more info.  But I wouldn't expect 5 KW to cause a problem.


I like they way I did mine using a separate 50 amp Anderson for each Elcon to the motor controller. There we know it can handle very high current.


-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[StableofZeros]

A 9.9kW set of diginows uses two 3.3’s that are crimped from 2->1->SBS connector that goes into the aux port, at full power it’s at most 30A? 4x Deltas would be 20A, but even that 50% increase is well within fuse limits

[mryan]

I guess you need one of these like you kinked to.  One plug each for an Elcon and one for the OBC, correct?
https://tucsonev.com/images/Zero/3-x-5-15-Combo.jpg

Yes, that is what I use for my J-1772 connections. But with the C-14's. I use them with adapters as necessary. That way I do not have to use the 120 VAC cord for my DeltaQ's or Elcons.


-Don- Reno, NV

Just a quick question, do you use the thunderstruck EVCC when you use j-1772? They say the EVCC basic doesn't include the additional 8 pin connector that allows for J-1772. Are these connections necessary for J-1772 at most charge stations or when using a Tesla to J-1772 connector?

Edit: According to a little research, it seems that the TusconEv adapters have a circuit inside of them that trigger the charge station, so in theory I wouldn't need the double price Thunderstruck EVCC Standard and could get away with the Thunderstruck EVCC basic controller

Edit 2: OP please count me out. I scored an Elcon 3.3kw on ebay for very cheap and will be doing the Thunderstruck controller method and modifying the charger connections myself. Will keep you all updated

[DonTom]

Edit: According to a little research, it seems that the TusconEv adapters have a circuit inside of them that trigger the charge station, so in theory I wouldn't need the double price Thunderstruck EVCC Standard and could get away with the Thunderstruck EVCC basic controller

I use no controller, no CANBUS connection. My Elcons switch off at 95% SOC and use no external hardware other than connectors any my own wiring.


I use a Tesla-Tap with Tesla Destination stations and I have adapters for outlets. If I can find AC voltage, I can charge up to 8 KW on my SR.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[staples]

You don't need the EVCC if the charger is set up without a CANBUS configuration.

The EVCC is designed to control the charger output based on information it gets from the BMS of your vehicle through CAN, and handles the communication to the J-plug. The CANBUS protocol of Zero's BMS is not compatible with EVCC or charger, so you won't get "intelligent" charging.

If you want to use a CAN-enabled charger with an EVCC to control the output manually, you can, but is probably overly complex for what you actually need.

[mryan]

You don't need the EVCC if the charger is set up without a CANBUS configuration.

The EVCC is designed to control the charger output based on information it gets from the BMS of your vehicle through CAN, and handles the communication to the J-plug. The CANBUS protocol of Zero's BMS is not compatible with EVCC or charger, so you won't get "intelligent" charging.

If you want to use a CAN-enabled charger with an EVCC to control the output manually, you can, but is probably overly complex for what you actually need.

The ebay unit I purchased is likely not programmed, but my zero fx has the 5.7 so I think I need to set a max current if I put two chargers together or it will trip 1c. I wonder if programming these is simple because it doesn't seem difficult to put an SBS75x on the battery terminals and resell if Elcon isn't willing to add the connector. Or an SBS50 to SBS75x harness could be put together and people can order their own Elcons.

[DonTom]

The ebay unit I purchased is likely not programmed, but my zero fx has the 5.7 so I think I need to set a max current if I put two chargers together or it will trip 1c. I wonder if programming these is simple because it doesn't seem difficult to put an SBS75x on the battery terminals and resell if Elcon isn't willing to add the connector. Or an SBS50 to SBS75x harness could be put together and people can order their own Elcons.

3.3KW plus your OBC would be what I would do in your case, keep it as simple as possible. Perhaps you can find an EV charger place such as Elcon in Sacramento, CA  to program it for your Zero FX.


-Don-  Reno, NV