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[GoneToPlaid]

I have a '21 DSR with Power Tank.  It has been working well now for 1800 miles.  Yesterday I rode it about 200 miles, with two 12-kW charging sessions.  Made it home with about 15% capacity showing on the dash, then plugged in to the OEM charger overnight.  This morning, I turned on the bike and only heard one click, from the main battery contactor.  No click from the Power Tank contactor.  The bike will not run.  The dash showed 79% charge, pretty close to 4/5ths one would expect if the power tank were not contributing.  The dash now shows error codes 0032, 0053 and 0054.  My guess is the primary one is 0032 "module variance too high".  I pulled the covers and the Power Tank status lights show just one red LED blinking.  The main battery shows all four: 1 red and 3 green blinking.  This fits with the 0032 error code - the main battery is charged while the power tank battery is below 25% charge.

Error codes are here:
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Gen2/Error_Codes
This suggests "Provide a balancing charge with the onboard charger".  Which I am doing now.

The only other reference I've found for this problem is here:
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9695.msg85947#msg85947

Should I try running down the main battery to nearly 0%, then plug in the charger again?  Maybe I can get the voltage close enough between the two packs that they will sync up again.  Just idling the bike will take several days to pull down the main battery, so I may rig up a dump load (like a 1500W radiant resistance heater).

Any other ideas?


Edit to add:
It seems to me that the root problem is not just that the batteries are mismatched for voltage, but that the Power Tank did not charge properly last night, while the main battery did charge.  What would cause that, and how would I fix it?

[ETA 2021-06-23]
It was a bad BMS board in the power tank, and Zero fixed it under warranty.


Thanks!

[Crissa]

Balancing is done at the end of the charge cycle by default.

If the packs get out of alignment, they charge inconsistently and one get worn more than the other.

-Crissa

[Shadow]

Once when stuck with an imbalance between PowerTank and Monolith on a 2016 DSR, I observed the measured voltage at the AUX charging terminals to differ from the voltage reported by the Bluetooth app connection, depending whether or not the kickstand was up or down (run-enable or run-disable). I was in a parking lot in the wrong part of town, disassembled the bike to disconnect the PowerTank and get the bike operable, and since was not able to investigate further.

The BMS components of PowerTank and Monolith battery modules communicate via CAN bus what the known voltage of the battery is to the MBB; The MBB has the bluetooth connection which is why it's always a short distance limited link because it is buried deep in the heart of the bike. There must be some way to check what the voltage is for each but I don't have an actual good suggestion. When the two battery modules are not synchronized and you are charging from a low SoC condition you will hear an additional audible click mid-recharge when the voltages align to be within some tolerance (1Vdc? 0.3Vdc? 0.1Vdc? something like this).

In some configuration the bike will power on and system voltage is 116Vdc (fully charged) but does not operate. In the other scenario the bike operates but never with the capacity of the other battery module because it will always be too low voltage to be included on the recharge process.

I had experienced this frequently because the used PowerTank sold to me had different cell characteristics than the Monolith and the MBB firmware was not written with this use case in mind.

[GoneToPlaid]

Crissa, the night before my 200 mile ride, I had left it on the onboard charger overnight and it was at 100% that morning.  So I expect it had plenty of time to do any balancing.

Shadow, how were you able to disconnect the power tank and still operate the bike?  When I have pulled off the power tank comm harness (previously, when the bike was otherwise working fine), the bike will not run.  In the thread I linked above, Brian Rice says "disconnect the Power Tank communications harness and replace it with the blanking plug".  I don't have one - any idea where to get or make one?  This would be handy to have if it allowed me to ride home on just the main battery, should this happen again.  I could also then just ride the bike to run down the main battery to the same SoC as the power tank.  As it is, I'll probably try a dump load tonight.

Thanks!

[Auriga]

The blanking plug pretty much has to be bought, but they can be found fairly cheaply on AF1. The bike won't run without the blanking plug, as it breaks the HVIL loop.
 
You're right that this divergence is not normal after charging. But it has nothing to do with charging to 100%. Interpack balancing works differently. On multi module bikes, the voltages of the two batteries must be kept in near equilibrium( within 800mV-1.5V apart, depending on model year). What's supposed to happen if they are not with a powertank/monolith bike is that if the voltages diverge(and they often do on a hard ride), once a charger is plugged in the bike will only charge the lower battery until the two voltages are close enough to charge simultaneously. A while back Zero did have a problem, since fixed, where if the voltages diverged enough after a ride, the bike would strand you. The firmware was patched to allow running on the higher battery(at reduced power) until voltages equalized or on older bikes just running on the monolith.

Since that did not happen, I'd hazard a guess that your power tank is throwing a fault that is preventing it from closing its contactor.  Error 53 BMS Interal Disable and Errors 54 MBB Disable suggest that as well. Error 32
 is probably a symptom of only being able to charge one battery
.
Getting logs and/or taking it to the dealer is probably the next step. Sorry about your struggle

[Crissa]

Unbalancing happens as you ride, so I'm not saying you did anything wrong.

Just that batteries are not simple.

-Crissa

[GoneToPlaid]

I downloaded the MBB log file and had a look through it.  During the May 1 ride and charging during and after the ride, both modules were working well and were matched within 0.1V (usually 0.02v).  Both looked good after finishing charging overnight:

06343     05/02/2021 03:47:09   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod: 116.001V, batt curr:   0A
06344     05/02/2021 03:47:09   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod: 116.003V, batt curr:   0A

06348     05/02/2021 03:47:44   Powertank voltage too high and monolith ineligible for connection. Setting powertank as ineligible for connecton.
This has happened 8 times in the last couple months, always at the end of a charging session.

Then when I switched the bike on, it threw this error:
06366     05/02/2021 13:07:01   BMS 1 Internal Disable Received.
This is the first one in the log file.  25 times total after this, from me turning the bike on and off.

06386     05/02/2021 13:07:08   Module 1 not connected, PV 0mV, diff 115726mV, Allowed diff 1060mV, pack cap 28Ah, batt curr 0A, PackTemp h 27C, l 27C, last CAN msg 76ms ago, lcell 0mV, Max charge 10cx10, max discharge 100cx10

It looks to me like the power tank took a full charge overnight, but now its BMS shows a pack voltage of 0V.  This matches what I see with the power tank's BMS indicator light - just one red light blinking.  The battery is fully charged but it reads 0V, so it rightly won't close the contactor.  My best guess is that something in the BMS failed.

A Zero Rep also PMed me to offer help, and I have sent the log files and description to them too.

[Shadow]

...Shadow, how were you able to disconnect the power tank and still operate the bike?  When I have pulled off the power tank comm harness (previously, when the bike was otherwise working fine), the bike will not run...

There is a configurable MBB setting for that safety feature.

[GoneToPlaid]

OK, so in order to run the bike without the PT, do I need the blanking plug, then also need to change the MBB setting?

[Auriga]

OK, so in order to run the bike without the PT, do I need the blanking plug, then also need to change the MBB setting?

In this case it would be an or. So either the blanking plug or that MBB setting. I've never heard of that setting before, so I can't help you there.

Zero Part number is 40-08029. I do not see it on AF1, but price is about 55 dollars. Any dealer can order one for you.

[GoneToPlaid]

I found this blanking plug at AF1, with a similar part #: https://www.af1racing.com/CONNECTOR-SDS-LOOPBACK-BLANKING-PLUG-ZM40-08029

But even better, my dealer found a spare blanking plug (maybe that came off my bike) and is sending it to me.  Using it and/or MBB configuration I hope to get the bike running sans power tank.  The Zero engineer who is helping me wants to see the BMS1 log, from the PT, but the Zero app has not been able to grab that yet.  Tonight, I'll try using the USB/OBDII connection to download that log file.

[GoneToPlaid]

I plugged in the blanking plug, and the bike boots and runs fine, no errors.  So I took out the power tank and proceeded to prep the bike for our trip, leaving tomorrow.  We're doing a 1200 mile loop, with some off-pavement, camping and so on.  I had to adjust charging in a few locations to account for the reduced range without the power tank, but this adds only about 5 extra stops over that distance.  So far I've had trouble getting serial comms to work, to pull the BMS1 log file.  After the trip, I'll get with Zero again about repairing or replacing the PT - I'm 99% sure that is where the problem is.

[GoneToPlaid]

Some follow-up: I took out the blanking plug and PT battery, and rode that loop without any trouble.  It ended up being 1400 miles.  Then I took the bike to Team Powersports in Raleigh NC, and they were very helpful.  They found a bad BMS board, and Zero replaced it under warranty.  Now I have the bike back and it and the PT are working well again.  I may keep the blanking plug in my tool roll, though.

[DonTom]

Yesterday I rode it about 200 miles, with two 12-kW charging sessions.

How do you charge at 12KW when you have the power tank installed?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Yesterday I rode it about 200 miles, with two 12-kW charging sessions.

How do you charge at 12KW when you have the power tank installed?

How does he charge at 12kW with a DSR, I think is the biggest question.

-Crissa