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[ScootCoupe]

Finally able to connect to my bike using ZeroSpy app. 

At 100% SOC I'm at 116.2v, and 2mv cell imbalance, seems fine, so... is it normal to have such a limited top speed at lower SOC? (60mph at 25%) 

Trying to see if it's worth investigating further, looking for terminal corrosion. Not sure what else to try.

Also, on your bike, pull the BMS logs and upload them to the  zero log parser https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php The comment you are looking for is something something, battery SOC %, discharge cutback % limited to XXX amps. The below is a log from the BMS_0 on my bike before I had the battery changed and it would start to derate all the way up at 75% SOC.

09/24/2018 09:01:09   Discharge level  095 AH, SOC: 32%, I: 77A, L:3500, l:3567, H:3509, B:009, PT:035C, BT:038C, PV: 98167, M:Bike On
09/24/2018 09:01:09   SOC:96860,142417,95025,114800,18,34,32,131
09/24/2018 09:01:09   Discharge cutback          67%
09/24/2018 09:01:10   580A <<<This is what you are looking for


I want to say that anything less than 650amps is noticable and you will only notice this reduction initially above 62mph, as this is where the motor output is at its max. Any speed less than this and you may not notice the reduction because the motor isn't pulling more power than what the battery can supply. After swapping out the battery, I can get a full 62.5kw all the way down to about 15% SOC. The old 12.5kW packs had a much higher internal resistance and honestly suck compare to the newer chemistries by Farasis.

[eddiebee]

I purposely didn't charge my bike in order to take measurements, and ended up surprised to find the bike died at 17%, leaving me stranded on the side of the road for the first time in 10 years of owning Zero's.   

At 20% the bike really started limping, and got slower and slower over the next few miles until at 17% the contactor opened and the SOC dropped to 0%. 

Unfortunately haven't been able to download any logs because the Zero app won't connect, but ZeroSpy told me:
0% SOC, Pack voltage 91.2, Cell voltage 3174/3313

Is this indicative of a bad battery?  Sorry for the lack of data, I've ordered a Kill-A-Watt and will take mileage next time.  Also looking to purchase an OBD/MBB cable or wireless dongle, but they're currently not available on ecmcables.com.

[Crissa]

SoC is an artificial function which is sometimes incorrect.  The voltage of a battery is not a simple curve by which to tell how much power remains in the battery; it's a function of voltage and amperage, and there's no way to measure amperage without using the electrons, whereas voltage potential is fairly simple.

Each battery will develop different voltage sag (drop in voltage) based upon the current load (amperage) which will also vary by temperature and state of charge.

So the system tries to estimate, and sometimes it's just wrong.  Doing cell-balancing and draw-downs by riding it will teach it to get its estimate right again (if the battery is okay) or it will reveal more problems (which will be in the logs).

-Crissa

[DonTom]

I purposely didn't charge my bike in order to take measurements, and ended up surprised to find the bike died at 17%, leaving me stranded on the side of the road for the first time in 10 years of owning Zero's.   

At 20% the bike really started limping, and got slower and slower over the next few miles until at 17% the contactor opened and the SOC dropped to 0%. 

Unfortunately haven't been able to download any logs because the Zero app won't connect, but ZeroSpy told me:
0% SOC, Pack voltage 91.2, Cell voltage 3174/3313

Is this indicative of a bad battery?  Sorry for the lack of data, I've ordered a Kill-A-Watt and will take mileage next time.  Also looking to purchase an OBD/MBB cable or wireless dongle, but they're currently not available on ecmcables.com.

Perhaps it will self calibrate the SOC if you charge to 100% SOC right after you drain it down to nothing, as do many laptop computers, as well as my Energica and other items that use SOC and lith rechargeable batteries. Too much recharging in the mid range can cause the SOC to un-calibrate. I do not know if this holds true with Zeros, but I think it probably does and it also explains why two different bikes with the same year, model and FW updates will have much different SOC indications on the same ride. 


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Zelidar]

Just past 32'000 km I had my battery pack replaced last week. Strangely enough, after showing a number of battery problem symptoms appearing just past 30K (no charging, red battery lights, phantom charging, range estimates jumping high and low, intermittent regen), during the two weeks preceding the appointment to swap the battery it quieted down and all went kind of ok. It seems as if it sort of healed itself. The only remaining problem was the 220 km of city range. Now with the new battery and in the same conditions I am getting at least 300 km on a first ride.

[evdjerome]

I purposely didn't charge my bike in order to take measurements, and ended up surprised to find the bike died at 17%, leaving me stranded on the side of the road for the first time in 10 years of owning Zero's.   

At 20% the bike really started limping, and got slower and slower over the next few miles until at 17% the contactor opened and the SOC dropped to 0%. 

Sounds similar to the symptoms I experienced on my 2015 DS after around 30,000 miles - obvious range reduction and early limp mode. They replaced the battery under warranty with a 13 kWh. During the time I had the new battery Zero came out with their new charging recommendations. Prior to that I was following their recommendation to always keep it plugged-in (except for long storage).

Even with following the new recommendations the 13 kWh needed replacing (still under warranty, but just barely) at 49,000 miles. Then I was upgraded to the 14.4 kWh battery. I'm now at 57,000 miles with no issues. So only 8,000 miles on the 14.4 battery so far. I've been pretty careful with not charging it over 80%.

[dvdt]

      My 2014 S 11.4 kW-hr original battery made it to ~45k miles at which point it was exhibiting the various ills reported by others. After confirmation of battery degradation by testing at a dealer, Zero replaced the battery under warranty. The replacement 14.4 kW-hr battery has only about 5k miles at this point, no issues observed (though the battery replacement process had some initial issues). My commuting use sees 40 miles per day, discharging to as low as 65% then L1 recharging at work to 100%. In effect, the battery is garaged for most hours of a day at 83% to 84%, with fairly brief excursions to 100% and <70%. Temperature conditions are mild, being garaged in the SF bay area, and use is effectively year round so no long term storage considerations.

      Overall, I definitely had planned my purchase based on a longer operating life for the battery, but Zero did make it good with a replacement under warranty so at this point I'm fairly confident that I'll attain the cost-effectiveness that I planned on.

[NervEasy]

I just had mine replaced. 2020 SRS with 10000km.

[princec]

Does seem to be a bit hit and miss with the longevity. TBH I wouldn't have bought one without the warranty. The thing I worry about most though are the chargers, MBB and BMS stuff going pop instead, as there's only 2 years on those (1 on mine, being an ex demo...)

Cas

[MarshallED]

Just keeping the thread alive but, I am in process for a battery replacement on my 2020 Zero FXS.
Mileage: 12,500 ish
Some track use, offroading, stunting, but majority commuting
Never charged above 0.5C or 3.3kw

My Background:
EE student, Navy Nuclear Electronics Tech, huge electronics nerd
Used to build Hotrod skateboard, Ebikes, E-Motos back when Lukeliveforphysics had shocked endless sphere with his Deathbike
FPV drone builder and racer
General Tinkerer.
Ive played with almost all chemistries of Lithium batteries at some point.

While reading symptoms please understand I've commuted on this bike to the same place of work for 2.5 years more than 280 days a each year.
The first 8,000 miles were virtually symptom-less. No noticeable range or power loss. Performed my 20 mile daily round trip flawless.

Symptoms:
-Bike struggled to maintain 60mph at 65% or lower SOC at ambient temperatures lower than 70F
-Excessive battery sag - after 7 miles at 65 mph average, indicated SOC would drop from 65% to 10% but bounce back to 35-40% after sitting.
-Battery off charger would go from 100% to 97-98% after turning bike on.
-Battery would not regen at 98%-99%.(used to get back to 100% on the hill before my first stop light in eco mode)
-Noticeable loss in range, would estimate from experience 30 miles highway, maybe 70 city vs 45-50 miles highway 100+ city i got the first 8k miles
-Power meter capped at three bars on highway (sometimes flashing full bars every .5 to 1secs like the battery was dying)

Troubleshooting before dealer:
====================Took time to keep battery warm before riding to work at night (I work night shift sometimes)============
- helped minimize battery sag (still had 10%ish bounceback)
- range was still noticeably lower
- maintained 65mph barely

====================Tried riding during day with warmer weather (80F) ===========
- no trouble maintaining highway speeds
- battery sag reduced further
- range still reduced

====================Pulling Logs===================
- Discharge cutback occuring at SOC 75% and lower
- Pack temps are high enough to disregard ambient temps (I live in San diego CA anyway, its never that cold)
->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pack Voltage dropping as low as 84 volts at 50-70% SOC<<<<<<<<<<<
- After my daily merge to the highway Battery Voltage would drop 10-15 volts!!!!!!
- Entire time I suspected something was wrong (3 mos) I would check cell balance via app or zero spy, and nothing was excessive)


=================Dealing with Zero Motorcycles Inc.===========================
-Knowing that the pack probably had a weak cell with excessive IR, and the BMS was limiting the pack to the weakest cell, I took it to the dealer and explained exactly      "My bike struggles to maintain 60 mph on the highway, I think there is a battery issue"
- 4 business days later, Dealer calls me and tells me "Zero pulled the logs and said the battery is aging healthily, your bike is ready for pickup, please let us know if you have further issues".....lol ok
- I ride to work the next day, same issue.
- Called the dealer, after printing and outlining the battery issues to provide to Zero, a few days later I receive a call that I will be getting another battery under warranty.

TLDR;
I don't like or trust Zero for after purchase consumer friendliness, I know for a fact that Zero wouldn't have honored the warranty if I hadn't done the digging and work for them. I also know that the majority of people interested in the Electric Motorcycle market dont know how to pull the logs using the Parser online, nor would they think to.
I have no doubt in my mind that in future updates and motorcycles, that Zero will soon make it impossible for end users to pull and see the logs via encryption or updated libraries. It took me less than 20 mins and 1 beer to see that the voltage was dropping excessively, and I am no genius. Ultimately, I am receiving a replacement battery, the question is, how long would it take the average consumer to do so having no access to the logs? 2 visits to the dealer? 3 or 4? God forbid you have a motor issue....

[NetPro]

Does seem to be a bit hit and miss with the longevity. TBH I wouldn't have bought one without the warranty. The thing I worry about most though are the chargers, MBB and BMS stuff going pop instead, as there's only 2 years on those (1 on mine, being an ex demo...)

Cas

Actually, the MBB went kaput on my 2 and a half year old SR/F and Zero replaced it without any resistance or I having to bend arms or do anything.
True, the bike had barely 2500 miles on it but the purchase date was well beyond 2 years. And it was a dealer-demo too.

The machine has been very stable since the replacement (about a month ago) and everything is working as it should as far as I can tell.