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[DonTom]

Does any of this apply to you?
https://pushevs.com/2018/04/27/battery-charging-full-versus-partial/

"Summing up, if you really want to take care of your battery try to limit charging to 70-80 % of its capacity, even if it means that sometimes you’ll need to discharge it almost till empty. "

I wonder why Energica says on the screen do not stop the charging and let it charge to full when it gets to  around that 80%. Which is worse for the battery, not letting it balance the cells or a charge to full?

Don-  Reno, NV

[lunarx]

"Summing up, if you really want to take care of your battery try to limit charging to 70-80 % of its capacity, even if it means that sometimes you’ll need to discharge it almost till empty. "

I wonder why Energica says on the screen do not stop the charging and let it charge to full when it gets to  around that 80%. Which is worse for the battery, not letting it balance the cells or a charge to full?

Don-  Reno, NV

Yea, it's a really interesting article.
I was shocked by that chart


80%-20% Providing 3,500 Cycles Lifespan
vs
70%-0% Providing 5,000 Cycles Lifespan

My guess, on the Energica, is that at 80% it must begin Cell Balancing, and therefore prompts you not to interrupt the process.
Although, I would suspect staying below 80% (as much as possible) would extend battery life, by the magnitudes shown in the article.
Another suspicion is that, above 80%, Cell Balancing is introduced for protection (where below 80% it's less of a concern)?

[DonTom]

80%-20% Providing 3,500 Cycles Lifespan
vs
70%-0% Providing 5,000 Cycles Lifespan

My guess, on the Energica, is that at 80% it must begin Cell Balancing, and therefore prompts you not to interrupt the process.
Although, I would suspect staying below 80% (as much as possible) would extend battery life, by the magnitudes shown in the article.
Another suspicion is that, above 80%, Cell Balancing is introduced for protction (where below 80% it's less of a concern)?

Well, if that is true, the display should say "disconnect before 80% to extend battery life". But it says the opposite right on the screen, as soon as it hits around 80% SOC.


BTW, I often charge to 100%. When this battery craps out, I will probably buy another Energica, with a much larger battery than my 2020.  And perhaps it will have other features I want, such as a center stand, full fairing and a 6KW AC charger.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DerKrawallkeks]

Hey,
I did a pretty deep dive into battery aging in regards to SoC.
There's the thread that I created, including the papers I used and the conclusions:

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10731.0

[eddiebee]

Is there any way to test battery degradation other than by range loss?

I'm trying to figure out why my 2015 DS12.5 at 25% SOC can only do 60mph.   My battery warranty expires in a few months, and I'm 1200 miles away from a dealer.

[Crissa]

The only way to test battery health totally is to run it through a cycle.  You don't have to go anywhere, but the power has to be consumed and measured at a set temperature.

You can also measure voltage when the pack stops absorbing power, and individual cell ranges, but exercising the battery and temperature can change those.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

The only way to test battery health totally is to run it through a cycle.  You don't have to go anywhere, but the power has to be consumed and measured at a set temperature.

You can also measure voltage when the pack stops absorbing power, and individual cell ranges, but exercising the battery and temperature can change those.

-Crissa

When I had my battery replaced in my DS, all the dealer  did was to send the logs to Zero and Zero replied for them to change the battery under warranty.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[enaef]

Zero SR/F 2019

After 20'000 km after winter storage at the dealer the BMS broke.

It took Zero too long to deliver the new BMS. After replacing it after several weeks they discovered, that, due to the broken BMS, the battery had depleted completely and things went south ... battery was useless ...

So I'm on my second battery.

[Kappi]

1000 km and counting on my new battery. Balance is good, range is good, life is good. Happy battery = happy bike = happy rider.

[eddiebee]

Finally able to connect to my bike using ZeroSpy app. 

At 100% SOC I'm at 116.2v, and 2mv cell imbalance, seems fine, so... is it normal to have such a limited top speed at lower SOC? (60mph at 25%) 

Trying to see if it's worth investigating further, looking for terminal corrosion. Not sure what else to try.

[DonTom]

Finally able to connect to my bike using ZeroSpy app. 

At 100% SOC I'm at 116.2v, and 2mv cell imbalance, seems fine, so... is it normal to have such a limited top speed at lower SOC? (60mph at 25%) 

Trying to see if it's worth investigating further, looking for terminal corrosion. Not sure what else to try.

Nope. You shouldn't even notice any difference at 25% SOC.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

is it normal to have such a limited top speed at lower SOC? (60mph at 25%) 

Nope. You shouldn't even notice any difference at 25% SOC.

It can vary a bit, but are you accidentally going into Eco?

When it was 40F and my battery is below 35% I can be limited to 65mph easy.

-Crissa

[Kappi]

is it normal to have such a limited top speed at lower SOC? (60mph at 25%) 

Nope. You shouldn't even notice any difference at 25% SOC.

It can vary a bit, but are you accidentally going into Eco?

When it was 40F and my battery is below 35% I can be limited to 65mph easy.

-Crissa

Isn't the BMS hard-wired to reduce max power in increments, starting at 52% SOC in any case?
So, a noticable reduction in top speed at 25 SOC seems plausible.
Eddiebee, if you have the logs from that ride, check the corresponding time stamp. On that timestamp, look for cell balance values.

[Crissa]

I don't know that it has to be hard-wired; the voltage is lower as the batteries empty.  So your available power is lower.

-Crissa

[ScootCoupe]

My 2014 SR is on it's second battery and it was replaced with 40,000 miles on the bike. I originally had a ZF12.5 pack and a 2.8 power tank. I like you, showed severe reduction of power around 30%, with the bike barely crawling at 10%. I worked with the dealer and Zero had them fully charge the bike, then I drive until the contactors opened and the bike stopped, then tow it to the dealer and have them pull the logs.

They originally denied the request because all they look at is the number of miles the bike went and it was within the expected/published range. I called engineering and politely explained that the distance traveled before empty was really on city backroads doing 30ish mph, whereas they were thinking I was on the highway. They then approved the replacement but only the monolith, not the powertank. I tried explaining to them that it's not a good idea to mix batteries chemistries and ages but they wouldn't replace the powertank. This later caused a bunch of no start issues where the new ZF14.4 monolith was not talking to the MBB because of some CAN bus issues.

They apparently wrote some new software and pushed it to the bike to account for this so if you replace yours, it should be a much simpler issue. Apparently there was a change in communication architecture after 2014 that the 2018 14.4 battery wasn't compatible with.

The best way for you to know how much the bike holds is to run it till the contactors open, then plug the charger into a Kill-A-Watt meter and measure the actual amount of energy it took to charge the bike. Multiply the number you get by about 0.92 to account for charger inefficiency. You'll need to then compare this number to the amount of energy the battery is supposed to hold according to the unofficial manual. A 12.5 pack DOES NOT hold 12.5kwh, it's something less like 11.4ish.