Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Shadow]

Here you go for a 2020DSR:
Brushless Motor Controller Cable Bolt   12 N•m   9 lb ft

Nice.   You're awesome.

And were the bolts too loose or too  tight? I am going to guess loose. There is very high current there  especially while riding which would be one very large spark....

Over-tightening a threaded DC terminal elongates the bolt and reduces surface area on the threaded mating surfaces, increasing resistance. I too thought it was the other way around and had to be corrected by an actual engineer. If the terminal was instead a chunky tab of conducting material with a through-hole (or bus bar with a stud) then yes you would want as much clamping force as you could get. Having connections be too loose is not better-or-worse than too tight, one is going to fail with use and the other with time.

About a week. While riding The guess was loose, but that's harder to tell, not much was left of the area except some slag. The heat required to melt the bolt and the surrounding area must have been intense.

There's nothing unsafe about having charger cables added there, as long as the crimps and wire are solid, the connection is good, and the torque to the controller is correct.

Yep. For HV DC solar home energy battery bus bars I wouldn't go any more than 3 lug connections to any single terminal stud: One down, one up, one up. Even then there's unequal current paths and it is measurable under load. I'm suspicious about stacking more than 2 lugs on the SEVCON motor controller... the stacking order and as you remind us the torque are critical to safety. I would (and have) installed to the motor controller terminals but nobody wants the liability of recommending this to others. So let me now just repeat none of this is advice what you should do, just what you can do if you understand the risk. Just cranking down as tight as you can by "arm feel" is not the way to do it.

So, I have no intention of adding an SB50 directly to the bike.  I'd be much more comfortable making a cable/adapter.  I'm assuming I'll need 1 SB50, 4 of those connectors, and an SBS75X, plus some 6 guage wire, maybe 4 feet or so.  Thoughts?

You need different contacts each for SB series and for SBS series, they are different length shells. High-quality 6-awg fine stranded wire should be alright up to 10-ft and 120% of the 75A rating of SBS75X shell in open air. I recommend CobraFlex X-Flex (the distributor here in the Reno/Sparks NV USA area that I use is Titan Wire & Cable) - you can drop down to 8-awg or even 10-awg with the X-Flex 150 series for weight savings at the trade-off of some loss in efficiency and safety margin, or even the normal X-Flex if your target is 32A charging rate, but note that the existing safety fuses may not prevent an electrical fire in the event of a short circuit on lesser-rated wiring.

See:
Anderson Power datasheet SBS
Anderson Power datasheet SB50

The way charging harness fuses are done is to use a fuse with through-hole tabs, bolt them inline to the cable, and glue-lined double-wall heatshrink over the fuse assembly. There are also non-serviceable fuses on the ZForce battery modules.

Do not solder anything. Always crimp. Solder can and will melt causing serious problems.

[josequinones]

So in summary, if you want an off board charger to supplement the OBC you have at least 3 options: (? means I'm not sure)

1. From your Zero Dealer: QuickQ, 1KW either 110/220v, correct Anderson connector, $600.

2. EV Components: ELCON TC HK-J3300W, 1.6 KW @ 110v, 3.3 KW @ 220v, need Anderson adapter?, $475 + shipping from China?

3. Elcon: ELCON HK-J-H132-32, 1.6 KW @ 110v, 3.3 KW @ 220v, need Anderson connector adapter, $750 + shipping from California.

I am getting option 3, now looking where to get/make adapter without buying more tools.

I have a 2014 SR with a new 14.4 battery pack.

[josequinones]

By the way thanks to everyone here for this discussion, very informative.

[josequinones]

I believe your local Solar System installer probably sells/can make the adapter if you bring them the parts.

[staples]

now looking where to get/make adapter without buying more tools.

If you find something please post it. I tried to go that route but ended up getting a manual crimper for the contacts.

[NoMoreIdeas]

I would definitely get a crimper.

For the single 3.3kw one I used 10 gauge wire, mainly because thats the biggest wire a single pin on the TC HK-J will support with the quick disconnect connector they come with. I have 4ft of wire and it gets warm charging with 32 amps. I probably should have ran 2 for the + and 2 for the - into 8 gauge connectors.. but I got lazy.

I got my connector here:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/SBS75XBRN?qs=cCJXSq33DMG1HrTqpEFwng%3D%3D
and the 8 gauge pin here: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Anderson-Power-Products/1339g5-bk?qs=yoCgdRjoRtHZTFPODnlH9w%3D%3D

I personally went with a can enabled charger and am glad I did. It wasnt too bad writing code for an arduino to control it with a canbus module, and I can control charge rate and max voltage very easily. I would share the code on here, but its kinda messy at the moment.

[DonTom]

Over-tightening a threaded DC terminal elongates the bolt and reduces surface area on the threaded mating surfaces, increasing resistance.

I wouldn't think the .01 ohm or so difference would be much of an issue. But OTOH, the current is so high there that it could heat up a little.


Now as long as the fire doesn't happen while I am riding . . .which is when the current draw is the very highest.


But it's been okay for a couple of years on my SR,  so I am not going to worry about it. But if anything, I probably overtightened them, because I didn't know about the spec but I did know I don't want them to come loose.


I assume using lock-tite on those bolts would also increase the resistance, so that would not be  good idea either.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

About a week. While riding The guess was loose, but that's harder to tell, not much was left of the area except some slag. The heat required to melt the bolt and the surrounding area must have been intense.

There's nothing unsafe about having charger cables added there, as long as the crimps and wire are solid, the connection is good, and the torque to the controller is correct.

Did the fire cause any burns to the rider? My guess would also be loose, causing large sparks under load.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Auriga]

Nope, as with most Zero fires I've seen, the rider tends to get off when the bike starts smoking heavily.

[DonTom]

Nope, as with most Zero fires I've seen, the rider tends to get off when the bike starts smoking heavily.

Glad to know that it gives time to get off!  I assume these fires are rather rare but also  sometimes even happens when work is NOT done on the bike.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Auriga]

Sure, the 2012 bike recall was caused by a few of those.  Of the couple I've seen outside that, they were both caused by controller bolt tightening issues. Zeros really don't seem to catch fire all that often.

[TNCreator]

I have a few more questions about these chargers:
Is there a recommended distributor in EU ?
Are the dimensions available ? on the Elcon website, the picture is so low-res that I cant make the figures
On the said picture, the charger seems to have fixation feet adding a lot of length, are they removable ?

thanks, I'm really tempted to add one to my setup, but I have to figure how to add it on the bike. I'm afraid the side-case is the only clean option.

[DonTom]

I have a few more questions about these chargers:
Is there a recommended distributor in EU ?
Are the dimensions available ? on the Elcon website, the picture is so low-res that I cant make the figures
On the said picture, the charger seems to have fixation feet adding a lot of length, are they removable ?

thanks, I'm really tempted to add one to my setup, but I have to figure how to add it on the bike. I'm afraid the side-case is the only clean option.

They do come with extra brackets that I removed. I also made an extension cable for each DC output. They are very short for the DC out and long for the AC in. I also made the AC cord much shorter. Both cables on the chargers are the opposite length  from what we need.


-Don-  Auburn, CA