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[satanspawn71]

Hi all, been a lurker for quite some time and gained a lot of valuable information before and after purchasing my Zero, and now its time to ask for my own help. I'll try and include as much information as i can without people not wanting to read to the bottom of the post!

Bike - Zero SR 2015 - 12.5 with 2.8 Power Tank
Problem - After 3 months sat in the garage @80% stage of charge, i proceeded to top the bike up to 100% before venturing on a ride. All seemed to charge ok, however during the ride i noticed that the Distance to empty was far lower than it had been previously. Ok i thought its been a while it'll just recalibrate - it didn't. Fault seems to be somewhere with the powertank as if you got on the bike and rode it, there is no issues with power or anything, i'm guessing it rides just like a normal SR 12.5 would.

Tests i've conducted:
Low state of charge to 100% charge and overnight balancing attached to a watt meter - got about 10kwhs
Opened the BMS hole to check the lights on the power tank itself - 0 lights showing and no flashing lights (unlike the main monolith)
Fuses seem ok although i could have missed something?
Turn bike on and the charge light flashes once (seemingly thinking it only has 1 battery attached) - although to be perfectly honest i didn't even notice this flashing twice in the 5 years previous
Can only hear one contactor clicking when turning on the bike - again over 5 years never even noticed the 2 clicks or if there were any!

Below are snippet from the download log file (newest first) which leads to me to think there is a problem of some sort - from what my basic skills of looking can decide is that the bike no longer thinks it has a Powertank? e.g. no 'module 01', and on the final snippet of log file i notice the powertank and the monolith to be quite unbalanced. It has always given the 500mV warning from what i can see, even back a couple of years.

Could this be the bike thinking the powertank is so far out from the monolith it won't close the contactor on Module 01? my main concern is that i can not see any lights in the BMS window of the powertank.

Any other information needed please feel free to ask, i didn't want to overload and paste my entire log files here! Thanks for any help you can give.

Recent turn on:
08245                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On   
 08246                       0   Power On                   Onboard Charger
 08247                       0   Calex 720W Charger 0 Connected   
 08248                       0   Calex 1200W Charger 1 Connected   
 08249                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Charging mode   
 08250                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 08251                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 08252                       0   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 08253                       0   Module 00                  serial: 15qd0567,  vmod: 98.657V
 08254     04/18/2021 15:38:51   Module 00 CAN Link Down   
 08255     04/18/2021 15:38:52   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 08256     04/18/2021 15:38:53   Sevcon Turned On   
 08257     04/18/2021 15:38:53   WARNING: Max allowed voltage difference is 500mV   
 08258     04/18/2021 15:38:54   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 08259     04/18/2021 15:38:54   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 08260     04/18/2021 15:38:54   Module 00                  vmod: 98.655 maxsys: 98.693 minsys: 98.693 diff: 0.000 vcap: 88.312 prechg: 89%
 08261     04/18/2021 15:38:54   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 08262     04/18/2021 15:38:54   INFO:  Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0   
 08263     04/18/2021 15:38:54   INFO:  Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1   


snippet from an older turn on
07065                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On   
 07066                       0   Power On                   Onboard Charger
 07067                       0   Calex 720W Charger 0 Connected   
 07068                       0   Calex 1200W Charger 1 Connected   
 07069                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Charging mode   
 07070                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07071                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07072                       1   Sevcon Turned On   
 07073                       1   WARNING: Max allowed voltage difference is 500mV   
 07074                       1   Module 01 CAN Link Up   
 07075                       1   Module 01                  serial: 16qd2907,  vmod: 111.532V
 07076     08/23/2019 10:11:21   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 07077     08/23/2019 10:11:21   Module 00                  serial: 15qd0567,  vmod: 112.139V
 07078     08/23/2019 10:11:21   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 07079     08/23/2019 10:11:22   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 07080     08/23/2019 10:11:22   Battery module 13 contactor closed   
 07081     08/23/2019 10:11:22   Module 00                  vmod: 112.142V, batt curr: 1A
 07082     08/23/2019 10:11:22   Module 01                  vmod: 111.534V, batt curr: 0A
 07083     08/23/2019 10:11:22   Sevcon Turned Off   
 07084     08/23/2019 10:11:22   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF   
 07085     08/23/2019 10:11:23   CAN1 ACK error. count=1   
 07086     08/23/2019 10:11:23   Sevcon Turned On   
 07087     08/23/2019 10:11:23   Sevcon CAN Link Down   
 07088     08/23/2019 10:11:24   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 07089     08/23/2019 10:11:25   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 07090     08/23/2019 10:11:25   Module 01                  vmod: 111.239 maxsys: 111.277 minsys: 111.277 diff: 0.000 vcap: 100.75 prechg: 90%
 07091     08/23/2019 10:11:25   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed   
 07092     08/23/2019 10:11:25   INFO:  Enabling Calex 720W Charger 0   
 07093     08/23/2019 10:11:25   INFO:  Enabling Calex 1200W Charger 1   
07094     08/23/2019 10:11:25   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 07095     08/23/2019 10:11:25   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 07096     08/23/2019 10:11:26   Module 00                  vmod: 112.043 maxsys: 112.056 minsys: 111.297 diff: 0.759 vcap: 111.937 prechg: 99%
 07097     08/23/2019 10:11:26   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   

[TEV]

Do a BMS reset on the Power Tank.

[satanspawn71]

Do a BMS reset on the Power Tank.

Thanks for the advice, just completed it, none of the buttons seem to do anything. Tried left hand button held for 10 seconds, right hand for 10 seconds and both held in. I think this is the correct method?
Certainly doesn't seem to get the lights appearing when i do a similar thing on the main monolith.

I've been searching for ways to measure the voltage of the power tank itself (by removing the wiring harness connector) but not having much luck! either people haven't had any issues like myself or its just not publicly available!

I have searched 183 pages of this forum and haven't found much!

[satanspawn71]

Just for further info, i have tried removing the harness from the power tank and measuring the voltage see attached from the positive and negative - but either my battery is toast or the BMS doesn't actually supply voltage to these terminals unless it knows its required?

[victor6.7y]

I'm not sure, but i think those two points only have a voltage when the contactor(relay) is turned on.

[satanspawn71]

I'm not sure, but i think those two points only have a voltage when the contactor(relay) is turned on.

I was hoping someone would say that  makes me feel a little bit better knowing the 0v I measured might not be true!

[mdjak1]

Do a BMS reset on the Power Tank.

Thanks for the advice, just completed it, none of the buttons seem to do anything. Tried left hand button held for 10 seconds, right hand for 10 seconds and both held in. I think this is the correct method?
Certainly doesn't seem to get the lights appearing when i do a similar thing on the main monolith.

I've been searching for ways to measure the voltage of the power tank itself (by removing the wiring harness connector) but not having much luck! either people haven't had any issues like myself or its just not publicly available!

I have searched 183 pages of this forum and haven't found much!

The power tank is exactly the same battery that is used on the modular FX and FXS.   One of my FXS batteries seems to have failed:  https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10989.0  The BMS reset procedure didn't help though.   I dropped off my Zero at a dealer to see if they can get the battery replaced under warranty since it is a 2017.

[satanspawn71]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of your post, i did think i had searched/scrolled through every single post but i don't remember reading yours.

Definitely does seem like my issue which is sad and having driven electric cars since 2011 puts me off owning another Zero when something as 'reliable' as a lithium battery in my cars at least can just go wrong with no warning on the Zero after just a couple of months stored at a battery % zero say is right to store a bike (and at which i would happily leave one of my electric cars for 'storage')

Mine is a 2015 with powertank installed at the dealer before delivery so guessing i'm going to have to do find out what they have to say, although i very much doubt it has any warranty nor will Zero honour the replacement should the battery be at fault! Guess at least i can remove the power tank and save some weight as i doubt i would pay the money to replace the thing at full cost as i got it at a reduced rate when buying the original bike.

I think i've tried everything to reset the BMS and even pulled the plugs to reset the MBB after reading a few posts saying people had contactor errors that were solved after just removing the 2 plugs and waiting 30 seconds and plugging them back in again. I wish i could work out a way to measure the actual voltage of the powertank, maybe taking the top off would lead me to be able to do that but again there just isn't any information that i can find to do such a thing other than what i have attempted earlier in the post using the terminals which might not supply voltage unless the BMS knows its connected to a system.

[TEV]

One of the small, female, pin, in a corner, has the + pack voltage, so you can measure between the battery - , and it. Usually it will be all black with corrosion .

[Richard230]

My 2014 Zero had its Power Tank installed by the dealer and it didn't work, either. When the shop's technician couldn't figure out what was wrong, they brought in a tech from the factory and he discovered that the BMS on the PT was defective and replaced the PT with a new one that he just happened to have in his truck. But even the new PT wasn't connecting with the MMB and he discovered that one of the pins on an internal connector had been bent, either at the factory, or by the shop's technician. Once he straightened out that pin and reconnected all of the cables, the PT worked as intended and is still working perfectly now that my daughter is riding the 7-year old Zero S.

[satanspawn71]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated - as my PT has been working for the last 6 years i won't rule out a bent pin but it won't hurt taking a look at all the connectors just in case any are brown (what have i got to lose)

Also thanks TEV for advising about the smaller pins on the PT connector possibly carrying postive, i hadn't even thought to try those so will take a bash tonight and report back - i'm thinking even if the battery is slightly dead it will surely be reading a voltage even if its really low and won't just be 0.00v!

[satanspawn71]

Just a quick update, doesn't look like any cables are burnt or pins bent.
Tried measuring voltage on the powertank with pretty much every variation of pins, came back with a maximum of 0.6v on any of the readings, the positive and negative of the main powertank registers 0.4v.
I'm guessing if that is true the powertank has died....although having dealt with many other lithium ion batteries on a smaller scale (ebike and electric unicycle) even when being left for 12 months they have never registered that low even with abuse and not charging (48v ebike battery and 36v). In fact I've never seen a lead acid that low!

[Richard230]

Just a quick update, doesn't look like any cables are burnt or pins bent.
Tried measuring voltage on the powertank with pretty much every variation of pins, came back with a maximum of 0.6v on any of the readings, the positive and negative of the main powertank registers 0.4v.
I'm guessing if that is true the powertank has died....although having dealt with many other lithium ion batteries on a smaller scale (ebike and electric unicycle) even when being left for 12 months they have never registered that low even with abuse and not charging (48v ebike battery and 36v). In fact I've never seen a lead acid that low!

Perhaps a connector inside the power tank has broken?