ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • November 25, 2024, 04:54:42 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)  (Read 369 times)

quixotic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile

3 words: DON'T DO IT.

There's nothing in the manual that says you have to use 220 or 240 volts, and the dealer never said anything about it, so I always just charged with the 110/120V in our garage.  Even after my wife raised the alarm one day about the smell of burning plastic, I still kept using 110/120.  However, I replaced the spade connector with the most robust spade that the local electronics store could find (ie, the same as the stock item).  But the male Zero plug still got extremely hot (ie, my finger starting to burn after a second or two), so I tended not to charge until the battery got low, and I checked the condition of charge every hour or so until the battery was fully charged.  And my wife kept nagging me about the possibility of burning down the garage.
 
And one day, after limping home with only one bar on the speedo, I noticed that the bike no longer was able to charge up to 11 bars.  Now it was only 8 bars maximum.  (I did a whole 'nother thread on that, with the title "how bad is my battery").

Suffice it to say that I eventually got a 240v system installed in the garage by an accredited electrician.  I didn't bother to get a wall outlet done, but instead just soldered the wires to the female plug end of the original Zero cord.  I did, however, get the electrician to install a robust switch for the cord, so that any sparking during the on/offs occurred at the new switch, instead of at the bike plug.  And the whole thing cost me less than $200.  I only wish I had done it when I originally purchased the bike. 

Now, not only does the plug on the bike remain totally cool, but I've also found that the balancing function (p. 6.4 of the manual) on the BMS actually works.  In fact, the majority of the work done to get back to 11 bars from 8 was done merely by leaving the bike plugged into 240v for about a week steady.       
Logged
2013 Zero S. Isle of Man Classic TT is on the bucket list.

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2021, 09:52:14 AM »

The heat is bad.  But the plugging and unplugging is worse.

Use a switch.  And the lower amperage of the 240v is awesome.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Allen_C

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2021, 10:13:40 PM »

This is interesting. I wonder how many others have experienced similar issues. I have used a 110v connection to charge my new DS several times and have not experienced any heat issues.  I wonder if there is something wrong with a connector or wiring somewhere in your set up? Which bike do you have?
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2021, 10:36:28 PM »

... I have used a 110v connection to charge my new DS several times and have not experienced any heat issues. ...
The charger will run at a higher amperage on the lower voltage.  More amperage creates more heat.

Worn cables and plugs create more heat.  Unplugging while the charger is engaged, folding the cable, bending the cable adds wear to the plugs and cable.

And if it's already warmer where you're charging, the cable and charger will have more difficulty shedding that heat.

Also, the style of rectifier that Zero uses for their charger is also more efficient at 240v than at 120v.  Even if it's just a percent of power lost, that loss is more heat.

Edit: How did I forget 'dirty contacts'?  That totally increases the heat, by alot.

That heat causes the capacitors and coils to expand, which breaks the potting and insulation, and makes them become less efficient and fail.

More heat bad.

There's nothing wrong with charging at 120v.  You'll probably never notice any problems if you take care with your cables and charge in cool locations.  It just happens to wear the charger more.  Just like certain kinds of miles and pavement will wear your tires more.  But for the most part, who's going to avoid a hill just because it wears your tires more?

-Criss
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 02:14:24 AM by Crissa »
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Auriga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2021, 11:46:52 PM »

I'd say this is a fairly common thing we see.

The other thing people don't realize is if the socket on the bike gets dirty, it will generate more heat and make that melting much worse. And  the heat will degrade the cord and socket faster in a vicious cycle. I usually recommend cleaning and inspecting that socket fairly regularly, especially if you charge at  110V.

That being said, if you do maintain it, there is nothing wrong with charging at 110.
Logged

ESokoloff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2021, 09:32:46 PM »

This is interesting. I wonder how many others have experienced similar issues. I have used a 110v connection to charge my new DS several times and have not experienced any heat issues.  I wonder if there is something wrong with a connector or wiring somewhere in your set up? Which bike do you have?

I’ve determined that on my 2016 DSR, crimped connections on the 12awg wires going to the on board charger were the weak link. These crimped connections are on the flag (90°) Stakon connectors that plug into the IEC320 C14 charging socket.

Here’s my write up.   

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10514.0

I use a 6’ hospital grade (see through) cord & I’ve recently found that the neutral’s wire on the male plug has its crimped connection discolored thus indicating a poor connection. 
I will need to cut the plug off & replace with a plug with screw connections.
I just received two of these  C13 plugs that use screw compression connections https://www.webberelectronics.com/product/pa130100rbk-right-left-iec-lock-locking-rewireable-iec320-c13-right-left-angled-connector
Unfortunately the bikes C14 socket is too far recessed in the frame for these to work as designed & I've not had time to find out if I can modify them. 


Bottom line, if you have access to 208~230 vac, use it as doubling the voltage half’s the amperage & allows the crimp connections to adequately function. 
If this higher voltage is not an option, eliminate these crimp connections. 
Logged
Eric
2016 Zero DSR

hein

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 11:09:54 PM »

The heat is bad.  But the plugging and unplugging is worse.
Use a switch.  And the lower amperage of the 240v is awesome.
-Crissa

That's 4 times agreed by me.

For the plugging and unplugging I think it feels more natural (to me) to plug into the outlet first.
Don't do it!
Plug into the bike first, and go deep. It has smaller spades and you do NOT want it to spark (=polute) there.
Plug into the wall next, that's designed for plugging in and out, and it can all readily be replaced if need be.

I do love my 240 outlets, and the lower amps that come with that.

I rewired the compressor to run on 240 as well, and a small welder, and a drill press that came with my moving from Europe 30 years ago.

Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2021, 02:02:16 AM »

Yes, the Zero manual states to plug into the bike first, then the wall.  You shouldn't be plugging anything energized into your bike!

I have the power cable on a switch, so that it's off when I plug it into the bike.

-Crissa
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 04:31:10 AM by Crissa »
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

DonTom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5078
    • View Profile
Re: Charging a 2013 battery with 110v/120v (instead of 220v/240v)
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2021, 04:16:40 AM »

That being said, if you do maintain it, there is nothing wrong with charging at 110.
Nothing wrong, but 240 VAC is still better. Less heat in the charger. The 1.4 KW (or less) Zero chargers are more efficient at 240 VAC, which means less power wasted in heat. Heat is what normally destroys electronics faster.

Charging at only 240 VAC on a 2013 Zero  can help the OBC last longer.

Perhaps the opposite on the SR/F and SR/S where there would then be more wattage as it is then a much higher charge rate when on 240 VAC.

-Don-  Reno, NV
Logged
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X
Pages: [1]