Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Red Clay]

I've been testing the FX for over a year now. While the motorcycle shines in so many ways, there are weak points.

Here is one: The only thing that stands between the motor bearings (directly behind the drive sprocket) and the elements is a simple and inadequate bearing seal (pictured below), which can be removed with a small screwdriver. This seal does not work as a barrier against dirt and water. An oil seal or dust shield seems important even though it would have to allow room for the snap ring that is on the drive shaft.

What do the experts think? Ever seen a solution for this?

Ride On, Red Clay

[Red Clay]

[mdjak1]

Nice fixture you built there to do the job.  I just hope I never have to do this to my FXS.   Not like it is going to be riding through a lot of dirt though.  And I hope the replacement bearings are sealed better.

[NEW2elec]

Great job with the video Red.
I see your putting those FX's to work.  Hope the Motorcycle touring venture is working out for you.

Shame it isn't sealed better but it's still a small young company.

One question though.  Is the inside shaft spline already internally threaded or did you cut those in as well?

[Red Clay]

new2elec. I'm not sure if I understand the question. Maybe this? the spline shaft is threaded about 1 inch deep, 10mm allthread, thread pitch is 1.5

I'm thrilled! Our motorcycle motors only have two bearings! and now we know how to get at them!

The engineering, design and function of zero's FX impresses me. I've (with help from friends) thrown it into the mud and crud to learn the weak spots: motor and swingarm bearings. Small price to pay for so much fun. The motorcycle really is quite easy to work on.

A seal solution is possible and probable, need a 50mm x 33mm x 10 or 12mm and either goo it on with silicone or make a (screwed on) plate that will hold it.

Thanks for the input.
Fixing it so we can Ride On, Red Clay

[NEW2elec]

Yep that was what I was asking, thanks.

[Fran K]

Appreciate the video.  Just a few comments.

Somewhere I heard hitting magnets with a hammer made them weaker.  You were not directly hitting the magnets but kind of indirectly.  Exactly how long and strong a magnet is something I really don't know a lot about.  These magnets are likely not Iron.  I think an electric heat gun would get the aluminum parts hot enough to not need to pound.

I note there is no swingarm pivot bolt, the bearing is in the frame and the swingarm is threaded.  You will see how it holds up. 

Did you think of packing the new bearings with salt water proof grease?  If there is space to fit an essentially glued on seal that would be fine.  The 80's Husqvarna bikes did not have a seal at that spot just a sealed bearing with no seal on the transmission side, there was a plastic or nylon spacer and sprocket held on with just a clip and really not too much problem there until there were basically problems in lots of places.

For the 6xx6 ball or deep grove bearings a 30mm bore size
Minute 6:54  60062rs Timken
6006 is what ultra light series?
6206 light series
6306 "standard size"?

[Red Clay]

Thanks Fran,

There's not much information out there on this subject. Glad to share...and thanks to Travis.

A hydraulic press will replace the hammer. Till then, determination and brute force; applied carefully.
Never heard of weakening magnets. Interesting, I'll have to research that.

An electric heat gun might work.  I pointed the heat at the inner part of the bearing, it is in direct contact with the main shaft.  The heat needs to be acute and hot enough to also melt the locktite.

I don't understand the note about the pivot bolt. There is no swingarm in the video. As far as how it holds up: the swingarm bearings suffer the same as the motor bearing because of a lack of protection beyond the factory bearing seal.

Great input on the grease. Factory grease is not worthy. I pack bearings with Bel-Ray waterproof bearing grease.

I did not know about the husqua spacer, good concept. The issue on the zero is that the outside clip spins with the motor and there needs to be room allowed on the inside of the seal for the spinning clip.

timken 6006-2RS is 30mm x 55mm x 13mm - (2)two (R)ubber (S)eal    This will fit. 

6206 is 30mm x 62mm x 16mm    this will not fit
6306 is 30mm x 72mm x 19mm    nope, I googled it.

Fix it and Ride On, Red Clay

[Crissa]

Yes, hammers weaken magnets.  Rare earth is brittle and steel is aligned, the shock can bring the atoms out of alignment.  (In fact, if you have a tool that gets magnetized, drop it on a hard surface or strike it to break up the field.)

Rubberized magnets are resistant to this and bumpers or stops will save rare earth magnets from shocks.

-Crissa

[Red Clay]

Crissa, thank you...please continue. It is best to not hammer, granted. Metal hammer bad? Big wood or big rubber hammer better? Cushion the blow with rubber?

I've hammered two and they run great! May be luck?

fixing it to break it again, Red Clay

[Red Clay]

We have this comment on youtube that deserves being shared.

"Nice rig!  one suggestion, when you press the bearing onto the shaft, you could use the shaft bolt and a spacer/sleeve over the splines to press on the inner race, rather than pushing on the face-plate which transfers the press force through the bearing which can possibly damage it."   Ryan Biffard

I missed that detail in the project process and I agree with his notion, plan to use this suggestion next time and will try to edit the video.

Thanks Ryan, Ride On, Red Clay

[ESokoloff]

If you have room, I wonder if  installing a “Slinger” on the motor shaft right before the seal would help prevent water/dirt egress into the bearing.   
https://www.google.com/search?q=pump+motor+shaft+slinger&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

I changed my swing arm bearings (2016 DSR) @ about 40k miles & used Aeroshell Grease 14  https://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/11516 as I’ve heard it good for such applications (not rotational but rather continuous back & forth movement).

[ADVENTURESonZERO]

We have this comment on youtube that deserves being shared.

"Nice rig!  one suggestion, when you press the bearing onto the shaft, you could use the shaft bolt and a spacer/sleeve over the splines to press on the inner race, rather than pushing on the face-plate which transfers the press force through the bearing which can possibly damage it."   Ryan Biffard

I missed that detail in the project process and I agree with his notion, plan to use this suggestion next time and will try to edit the video.

Thanks Ryan, Ride On, Red Clay

Trying to wrap my brain around this one (I'm about to remove my motor and replace the same bearing). He's saying to use some washers to press the bearing into the housing, versus pressing the housing onto the shaft? Either way, aren't you putting force on the bearing no matter which way you install this since there are two elements being fitted to/through the bearing?

[Red Clay]

I'll try to explain,
At 7:40 on the video, the bearing is pressed (hammered) into the plate until it rests against the shoulder of the plate. The bearing is sandwiched and held in place by the shoulder that is inside of the hole and the snap ring.
At 8:30 on the video, I placed boards in between the plate and the top of the rig.
As I tightened the bolt, the force of the rig is on to the plate, which transfers the force to the bearing with the above mentioned "shoulder". The legitimate concern is that the shoulder could break.

Ryan is suggesting to instead use a sleeve (pipe) in between the bearing itself and the top of the rig. The sleeve needs to be the same size as the inner race of the bearing and allow room on the inside for the motor shaft. Looking at the old bearing, which is 30mm ID, so the sleeve needs to be 32mm ID.

Thanks again Ryan. I'll edit this into the video one day soon. I hope this helps. Sometimes things are easier done than said.
Best luck with the project. Go slow and work on a very clean bench away from metal shavings.

Ride On, Red Clay

[Moto7575]

Yes this is unfortunate but this is the kind of quality issue you have on Zeros - i had bearing, charger, plastics and battery issues- only the last one correctly handled by Zero & the dealer. Energica bikes seem to have much less of them but their cost is higher and they do not have dirt bikes.