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[MVetter]

I think this is a pretty good representation of real-world riding. I wish they'd had an SR/S as well, though. Maybe in a future video.

[NEW2elec]

So a few things come to mind.
Did the Zero have the range fix software installed?  Is it slowing down due to a miscalculation of SOC like you had on the SRF?

I want to make sure those are Energica + models which they are listed as.
If that's the case then a little over 100 miles for a 21kWh battery pack (in the cold) for mixed riding?
Also the same range for an Ego sport bike and Ribella naked?  No aerodynamic penalty?

[Demoni]

Really interesting video, happy they were able to get all the major EV players together.

I want to make sure those are Energica + models which they are listed as.

Yep can confirm, those are the + version bikes.

Also the same range for an Ego sport bike and Ribella naked?  No aerodynamic penalty?

Rider input would have more of an effect on range vs wind drag at the speeds they were riding. At higher speeds the EGO would have an advantage (somewhere in the 5-10% range?).

If that's the case then a little over 100 miles for a 21kWh battery pack (in the cold) for mixed riding?

The rider has so much to do with a bikes range. The Livewire produces 78kW compared to the Energica 107kW, a twist of the wrist will consume more watts on the Energica.
Maintaining a constant speed up to ~55 mph on flat ground requires very little energy. You are mostly fighting rolling resistance and a little bit of wind drag. It's the acceleration that eats energy... Thanks Newton

[MVetter]

On top of that, the SR/F did go ~85 miles on mixed roads which seems to be what the bike does with good firmware. When v18 was plaguing our bike we couldn't get more than 50 out of it at a time.

[NEW2elec]

Thanks for the reply Demoni.
My take form the video is they were claiming to be going over a mixed route with highways and back roads.  I would expect the bikes to be closer to their 143 mixed range projection.

I assume from the footage all four bikes pretty much stayed together so unless they were slingshotting (dropping back and shooting forward).  The only differential factor should have been the bike + rider weight, and bike + rider wind resistance.

The Energicas should have blown both the Zero and Livewire out of the water with about 40-50% more battery capacity.
Instead they got about 20-10% more range under the same or very similar conditions. 

[shayan]

Since this is purely a range comparison battle, wonder how the SR/S with a power tank would do against all these, esp against the Ego+ as both are more aerodynamic compared to the other bikes and would have comparable battery capacities.

@mvetter anyone in the real world have reliable range numbers with a PT (and the latest firmware which seemingly fixes the SOC issues)?

[MVetter]

I still don't have data on Power Tanks. Really wish I did. I know a couple of SR/F owners with Power Tanks but not well enough to request their bikes and do testing.

[princec]

Acceleration I think is a bit of a red herring - we spend very little time accelerating on the road, and much less of that time actually accelerating hard at all (I recall seeing a datalog of someone on a track riding a 600 as fast as they dared in one of the rags and it turns out they spend something like 3% of the track wide open) - so the weight won't have a lot to do with the range, it'll be all about speed, and despite the Ego's fairings, it's unlikely to have any "significant" effect on anything remotely like legal road speed as bikes are all absolutely terrible with drag.

I reckon the formula generally still stands - 10KWh in = 50 miles out - give or take a little. All the other serious reviews of the SR/F reckon on 70 miles of range before trouble, so I would expect pretty much the calculated extra range from the Power Tank assuming it's not lying about its capacity, so 3.6KWh would give about 18 miles of range.

The Energicas are surprisingly short range for their stated capacity, which means either their motors/transmission are way less efficient, they have terrible drag, they're bullshitting about the actual capacity, or the software is very conservative, or likely, some combination of all of the above. The H-D seems to manage what other reviews say it will manage and it's in proportion to its capacity as expected. They all appear to do exceptionally well ridden slowly, but nobody rides like that in the real world, eh?

Cas

[Richard230]

Since this is purely a range comparison battle, wonder how the SR/S with a power tank would do against all these, esp against the Ego+ as both are more aerodynamic compared to the other bikes and would have comparable battery capacities.

@mvetter anyone in the real world have reliable range numbers with a PT (and the latest firmware which seemingly fixes the SOC issues)?

You may have read my comments before but when my 2018 Zero S with a Power Tank was new, I managed a 150-mile ride without recharging, which included two long of climbs and descents in the Santa Cruz Mountains and then a run back home along the coast highway. I kept my climbing speeds to around 30-35 mph and on my ride along the coast, battling a headwind, I tried to maintain 50 mph. Of course that was with brand new batteries, which were fully charged and balanced before I left home. 

[princec]

No one else wants to ride like a nun though Richard

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Cas which electric motorcycle do you own?  I forget.  I know you were complaining that some bikes had too much power and it was so stupid to go that fast.  Now your against going slower too?

I had wanted this basic range test done with long term electric motorcycle riders so they wouldn't be so giggly about the torque.  That could do 50mph and some 35-40mph back roads and show what they can actually do.  Spring or summer conditions as well to get the best out of the batteries.

One of the most over looked positives about the electric drive train is how it can be two bikes in one.  A slow relaxing sight seeing touring bike, then just swap modes and twist and gone.

[TheRan]

I reckon the formula generally still stands - 10KWh in = 50 miles out - give or take a little. All the other serious reviews of the SR/F reckon on 70 miles of range before trouble, so I would expect pretty much the calculated extra range from the Power Tank assuming it's not lying about its capacity, so 3.6KWh would give about 18 miles of range.

At what speed? I've never actually used the trip counter to see how much range I get (or even run the battery flat) but I've never managed to get the range estimation on the dash of my 7.2 down to anywhere near 36 miles, the closest I think was about 45 miles going full throttle at 86mph for a few minutes. I suppose if I did it now, during Winter, it might get that low but that's going to be the worst case scenario.

[princec]

Cas which electric motorcycle do you own?  I forget.  I know you were complaining that some bikes had too much power and it was so stupid to go that fast.  Now your against going slower too?

I had wanted this basic range test done with long term electric motorcycle riders so they wouldn't be so giggly about the torque.  That could do 50mph and some 35-40mph back roads and show what they can actually do.  Spring or summer conditions as well to get the best out of the batteries.

One of the most over looked positives about the electric drive train is how it can be two bikes in one.  A slow relaxing sight seeing touring bike, then just swap modes and twist and gone.

Bang to rights, I don't have one, but only because they're daft money and sadly I've still got more sense than money after all these years. I'm sat waiting for the first SR/Fs to get under £10k.

Normal riding here in the UK is what you might do if you were a member of RoSPA or practising Roadcraft, that is, generally sharp, confident and full use of the available power to travel at the fastest prudent speed for the road and conditions, and then maybe a bit more when nobody's judging. It's not hanging about, but it's not sticking two fingers up at the law; it's not dawdling either. We euphemistically call it "making progress" in the UK but really it's what most of us just call "normal riding".

UK journos tout 70 miles out of the SR/F riding like this, and about the same or a bit more from the Livewire.

Cas

[MVetter]

Here's my take on it, expounding from what Chris said as this is something I've observed as well. Yes, once you get going, the weight of the bikes matters less. HOWEVER. With the Ribelle and the Ego+ you literally have a.) the most power and b.) the heaviest bike. This means when you punch it, and you're going to because it's way too much fun not to punch it, it will start gobbling power at an unholy rate. I have a 2018 SS9 and if I open the throttle uphill I will easily pull over 1000Wh/mi. Yes, 1kWh/mi instead of the usual 140 or so we all usually see on regular riding.

The SR/F and the LiveWire are lighter and have less power, so even when you do punch it, and they respond beautifully, it's not the absurd instantaneous consumption of the Energica bikes. I found myself punching my SS9 throttle a lot more than I ever did with my SR because the power difference just was, and continues to be, so exhilarating.

Again, I think every bike in this video performed well, and I think Zero fans should be pleased with the 85 miles of range shown. Now I want to see an SR/S join in. The Southern California group of electric riders are actually planning a run from Anaheim --> Reno on May 14th. I know there will be a bunch of Energicas and LiveWires; I'd be thrilled to see some SR/F and SR/S owners take the challenge as well.

[Richard230]

No one else wants to ride like a nun though Richard

Cas

All I ever want to do is to get to my destination without having to push my bike. I am never in any hurry. To me motorcycles are just transportation that are fun to ride at any speed.