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Author Topic: Lithium Battery waste  (Read 975 times)

DonTom

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Lithium Battery waste
« on: February 06, 2021, 11:54:24 AM »

Recycling Lithium batteries isn't as easy as lead-acid.

See here.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
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Richard230

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2021, 08:31:29 PM »

Thanks Don. That was a very interesting and informative article.   :)
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 08:45:17 PM »

I've been called bad names for claiming that used batteries (plus solar cells and windmills) are a waste problem. It is nice that companies that are trying to fix large part of the issue, but said fix will not be reality unless it becomes cost effective.
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Crissa

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 11:16:45 PM »

Good article, tho needed another editorial pass.  Hmm.

-Crissa
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Fran K

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2021, 06:23:35 PM »

I found a little quote.

"“Designing for recycling is a very important area, but you can’t sacrifice performance at all, or nobody’s going to want to do it,” says Gaines. "

Thel first part seems ok the second 2/3 is questionable.

Fran
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JaimeC

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2021, 08:10:34 PM »

I found a little quote.

"“Designing for recycling is a very important area, but you can’t sacrifice performance at all, or nobody’s going to want to do it,” says Gaines. "

Thel first part seems ok the second 2/3 is questionable.

Fran

I don't know about that.  Nearly EVERY advertisement I read for an electric motorcycle seems to stress horsepower, torque and acceleration times.  Several sentences later in the ad copy you'll see some mention of battery capacity and recharge time.  To me, that sure seems like the marketing department knows their target market...
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caza

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2021, 12:06:24 AM »

I think the only way for batteries to be more recyclable by design is for solutions to be mandated.

Otherwise yeah, if making your battery less easy to recycle gives you better performance or even just cheaper manufacturing costs, those are the EV's that are going to sell while those prioritizing recyclability will go out of business.

We've had this discussion recently about Zero potting their pouch cells, which makes the packs difficult to service or disassemble and presumably also difficult to recycle. But any solution that replaced the potting would likely decrease capacity, cooling performance, and water-resistance.

We're still at the point where the first question about any EV is what is what's the range, recharge time, and price. Any decision that doesn't directly impact those three factors in a positive way is not going to be the manufacturers priority.

I've said it before but at this point battery recycling and pack replacements are the biggest issue facing long term EV adoption. If after ten years our vehicles are full of 60kwh of hazardous waste we don't have the capacity or economics to recycle, our attempts to go green are not nearly as effective as we want them to be.
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ESokoloff

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2021, 09:04:13 AM »

Recycling Lithium batteries isn't as easy as lead-acid.

See here.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Déjà vu all over again .....

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10713.0
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Eric
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Demoni

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2021, 11:12:31 AM »

VW seems to have a strategy for reclaiming the core materials from packs:


The above process mirrors how Pb batteries are recycled, they are crushed and separated into base ingredients: plastic, sulfuric acid & lead.
-----
Reuse of lithium is another story, it's a developing industry that has a lot of potential.
The DIY hobby of salvaging, testing and repurposing cells for personal energy storage is growing too. The market for low voltage DC inverters and other power management products is booming.
Best part, this ties into the renewable energy space as people work to build solar and wind systems to harvest and store power.

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Kappi

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2021, 04:13:34 AM »

Is there any way the Zero packs can be recycled once they are done for?
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Richard230

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2021, 04:47:32 AM »

Is there any way the Zero packs can be recycled once they are done for?

If they can, Zero is keeping quiet about it.  ::)
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 07:56:47 PM »

Is there any way the Zero packs can be recycled once they are done for?

Nearly everything can be recycled. How much are you willing to spend on the recycling? The real question is under what circumstances does recycling (or repurposing) become more expensive and/or less environmentally friendly than creating new from scratch?
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Richard230

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2021, 08:30:06 PM »

Is there any way the Zero packs can be recycled once they are done for?

Nearly everything can be recycled. How much are you willing to spend on the recycling? The real question is under what circumstances does recycling (or repurposing) become more expensive and/or less environmentally friendly than creating new from scratch?

In my city the only thing that makes money for the recycling company is aluminum. Paper, cardboard, plastic and glass are all money losers now that the Chinese are pretty much refusing to accept our "recycling" debris. (After all, we sure don't want it around here.  ::) ) So our garbage disposal rates help to subsidize the company's recycling program. If it doesn't make money recycling is not going to be appreciated commercially in California unless it is government or publicly subsidized. I am not sure what is happening with paper and plastic waste, but I have heard for years that glass just gets dumped into landfill because it costs too much to recycle it into useful products. As always, in the U.S. it is all about money.  ;)

Hardly a day goes by when I don't hear about their latest EV plans and new and improved EV technology from the major automobile manufacturers but I sure don't hear much regarding their plans to recycle the hundreds of millions of lithium batteries that will be the result of all of those potential EV vehicle sales.  ???
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DonTom

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2021, 01:13:47 AM »

Hardly a day goes by when I don't hear about their latest EV plans and new and improved EV technology from the major automobile manufacturers but I sure don't hear much regarding their plans to recycle the hundreds of millions of lithium batteries that will be the result of all of those potential EV vehicle sales.  ???
Reminds me of, especially the words "He's taken everything this old Earth can give. And he ain't put back nothing."  -Nothing but a lot of lithium battery waste!

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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nevetsyad

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Re: Lithium Battery waste
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2021, 04:02:17 AM »

How many lithium packs are "done"? A pack in just about any condition will sell and there's plenty of buyers wanting a used one. There's not much demand for lithium pack recycling right now. Maybe in a decade or two when packs aren't salvageable? Who wants a 30 year old, used, 60kWh pack that needs half its cells replaced?
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