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[MVetter]

It's probably a coincidence that all the performance brands use pouches.

[NEW2elec]

Like Tesla, Lucid, and Rivian?  Or a motorcycle that stands up to it's gas class like Alta?

[princec]

Now they don't exactly have a space/weight premium to worry about though do they, being huge cars.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Maybe why I included Alta.

[MVetter]

Alta is doing very well I hear.

[Crissa]

Yea, Alta went out of business using cheaper cells... wait, what?

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Alta went out of business because of HD's bad faith.  There are two Altas for sale on CT at the moment.  For over original retail.

[princec]

"Bad faith" in business is usually better described as "n00b CEO made terrible mistake arranging business deal and got shafted" ("But you pwomiiiiiissssed!") but that's quite a digression from Curtiss' battery tech

Cas

[wavelet]

"Bad faith" in business is usually better described as "n00b CEO made terrible mistake arranging business deal and got shafted" ("But you pwomiiiiiissssed!") but that's quite a digression from Curtiss' battery tech

Cas

Erik Buell got shafted much worse by H-D, when they decided to kill Buell which was quite profitable, just because it wasn't quite as profitable as H-D bikes.

[princec]

I did wonder why EB didn't just start sourcing his engines from elsewhere eg. S&S. But then everything EB seems to turn mysteriously also turns to shit too.

Cas

[JaimeC]

EBR was actually building their own engines, the evolution of the engine they developed with Rotax, when they spun off of Harley Davidson.  Then he got into another disastrous partnership with Hero Motorcycles of India who got all the IP out of them they wanted and then stopped paying the bills.  EBR was picked up by LAP and they're still selling EBR motorcycles, but Erik is no longer involved with ICE bikes.

We were all amused by the announcement that Harley Davidson recently signed a partnership with Hero.  Can't wait to see how this plays out...

[wavelet]

I did wonder why EB didn't just start sourcing his engines from elsewhere eg. S&S. But then everything EB seems to turn mysteriously also turns to shit too.

Cas

At that point, Buell the company was 100% owned by H-D, so I expect EB no longer had ownership of any of the intellectual property.
Also, it's my understanding that the whole move was sudden (or at least secret), essentially pulling the rug from under EB, so even if he
had rights to the designs, there wouldn't have been time to source equivalent engines; at that point Buell was making 15K bikes/year.

I consider EB an amazing engineer and designer -- it's unbelievable what he managed to do with the H-D stock engines, which were not intended for any of the uses he put them to,  and the wide range of model types on a very low budget (beginner bikes, sportbikes, sport-tourers, adventure, standards).

[wavelet]

EBR was actually building their own engines, the evolution of the engine they developed with Rotax, when they spun off of Harley Davidson.

AFAIK, EBR was a completely new company he founded with outside investors, with no relationship to H-D .

Then he got into another disastrous partnership with Hero Motorcycles of India who got all the IP out of them they wanted and then stopped paying the bills.  EBR was picked up by LAP and they're still selling EBR motorcycles, but Erik is no longer involved with ICE bikes.

EB isn't necessarily good at the business side of the motorcycle business, is the impression I get.

We were all amused by the announcement that Harley Davidson recently signed a partnership with Hero.  Can't wait to see how this plays out...
[/quote]
Yup. Hero is about the same size as H-D; less revenue, but more profits... They make 7.5M bikes/year.
H-D isn't big enough to strongarm them, esp. when their market is declining sharply (among other reasons, because they killed Buell) whereas Hero's is growing.

[JaimeC]

True... EBR had nothing to do with HD, and HD had already decided they would (unofficially) look the other way regarding any patents Erik had while working for HD that might've ended up in an EBR motorcycle (such as Fuel in the frame, the ZTL brake amongst other things).

Now EBR has nothing to do with Erik.  Erik has a new venture in FUELL.  Their Flluid e-Bike has been very well received and it is their current priority since it is selling so well.  The Fllow got delayed thanks to the pandemic but I'm sure it'll be available soon.

[Frank]

Back to batteries: I like pouch cells and have never used anything else.  But in planning my next build I'm finding that it's hard to identify quality cells that are available to the average hobbyist.  There's all sorts of cylindrical cells out there that anyone can buy though.