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[Auriga]

That's not what they said last year, though, Auriga.

-Crissa

OK then, not sure about that, but I trust the engineer I talked to and the release notes seem to confirm it. Where/When did they say that?

[Hans2183]

Quick correction : storage mode was always available on the SRF abs SRS. The only new thing that came with FW v 18 is the option to entef storage mode by using the app. Before it would only trigger after 40 days.

I'm sorry Hans but that is incorrect. Long Term Storage mode was not in the fw for fst bikes(SR/F,SR/S) until rev 18. It has been in gen II firmware for much longer.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/firmware

I've got it direct from Zero's engineers themselves while trying to diagnose a bike. That is why it was added to the app recently as well.

Then how do you explain storage mode being in the manual from the first release of the SR/F back in June 2019?

The firmware updates information you point to is about added ability to enable that storage mode using the app, on command. Nothing else.

The  storage mode capability itself has been in the SRF from the beginning. It would engage automatically if you didn't use the bike for 30 days. Getting it out of storage mode hasn't changed since then.

[Auriga]

Quick correction : storage mode was always available on the SRF abs SRS. The only new thing that came with FW v 18 is the option to entef storage mode by using the app. Before it would only trigger after 40 days.

I'm sorry Hans but that is incorrect. Long Term Storage mode was not in the fw for fst bikes(SR/F,SR/S) until rev 18. It has been in gen II firmware for much longer.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/firmware

I've got it direct from Zero's engineers themselves while trying to diagnose a bike. That is why it was added to the app recently as well.

Then how do you explain storage mode being in the manual from the first release of the SR/F back in June 2019?

The firmware updates information you point to is about added ability to enable that storage mode using the app, on command. Nothing else.

The  storage mode capability itself has been in the SRF from the beginning. It would engage automatically if you didn't use the bike for 30 days. Getting it out of storage mode hasn't changed since then.

I'm sorry if I'm implying something here. I am a certified Zero Tech working at a Zero dealer who was told this by a Zero Electrical Engineer at HQ while diagnosing a bike with a similar issue about a month ago.

I know they had planned to launch SR/F with the storage feature, but it was delayed. Maybe it got added to the manual accidentally then? I know that it was in development until recently, and was told that it is impossible for an FST bike without rev18 to enter storage mode. I also know the ltsm MBB serial console command was added to view storage mode status and manually enable/disable it in the latest fw. I also would not be surprised if some ltsm code was left in since launch, but disabled somehow.

Honestly, I'm not thrilled with the feature. All it does is  try to drain the battery to 60%, then it lets the bike sit there. It still wakes up periodically to heat(if necessary) and charge the 12V battery, the CCM keeps trying to send cellular packets back to Zero. If you're plugged in it should reactivate the charger and charge back to 60 but Zero doesn't recommend that.

I think the app is just screwed up, and doesn't discriminate between bikes with the latest firmware that can enter/exit storage mode, and older revs that might only have the storage mode indicator. SOC algorithm probably isn't super accurate for a bike sitting around experiencing continuous cold/temperature fluctuations.

Question for jimnb11, can you ride the bike? If so, and the app shows you are in storage mode, than you are not in storage mode, because that prevents riding. If you charge it and it doesn't say on the dash that it's charging to a charge target of 60% automatically, you aren't in storage mode.

[Hans2183]

Confusing information then indeed. I even have that enter storage mode command on my console with FW v17. The app has it also but entering fails in mine because of that FW version 17. I didn't try entering storage mode yet by console. I.ll try to test that and report back.

[karlh]

I put my 2020 SR/S into Storage Mode using the app a month ago.  I check the SoC once a week to see if I should plug in the charger.  Right now the bike is at 50%.  However, I've noticed that the message on the dash that the bike is in Storage Mode only displays every other time I turn the key on to check the SoC.  Has anyone else seen this?

[Hans2183]

Do you have a picture of that message karlh? Would love to see how to check if the bike is in storage mode or not. I can just use mine for the moment but because I used the app to try go in storage mode the app always goes to that storage mode screen when I connect it to the bike.



Looks like Auriga is right with his information. I just tried to get the bike in storage mode using the command line and all I get is a message response about attempting to go in storage mode. But when I turn the bike on it doesn't report anything about storage mode and I can just use the bike as normal. I've did several rides since I tried to put it in storage mode using the app. No messages on the bike.

Code: [Select]

ZERO MBB> help

*************************************************************
* Main Menu                           *
*************************************************************

  help            - Display this Help screen
  login           - Display login level, or login with password

  -- MBB Operational Information --
  ver             - Board and firmware revision
  dash ver        - Dash and Telit firmware revision
  time            - Current time
  in              - State of all inputs
  faults          - Active faults (-v for verbose)
  stats           - All statistics
  state           - Bike operational state
  pdu             - Power Distribution Unit information
  dash            - Dash information
  msc             - Motorcycle Stability Control information
  controller      - Controller information
  heater          - Battery Heater information
  ccm             - Cellular Communication Module information
  config          - Configuration information
  charging        - Information for charging system
  bms             - BMS data and commands
  perf            - Range filter data and calculated WH
  obd             - OBDII status and data
  compat          - Compatibility information

  -- MBB Settings Control --
  forcestrgmode   - Attempt to force all modules into storage mode

  -- MBB Event Log Management --
  eventlog        - Display additional event log commands
  eld(e) #        - Event Log Dump (e = exhaustive, # = last n entries, optional)
  eldd #          - Log Dump by Date (# = start date: MM DD YYYY HH MM SS)
  elddh #         - Log Dump by Date dump hex (# = start date: MM DD YYYY HH MM SS)


ZERO MBB> forcestrgmode
Attempting to force all modules into storage mode... (check bms status flags)


Below message shows up in the logs every time I key the bike off so I don't think that HIB is what the storage mode is about.

Code: [Select]

01/07/2021 15:24:41.146 - State change from STOP to HIB

Just to rule out that my app is now keeping some state about that storage mode (instead of the bike) I'll test with another app install.

edit: nah even on another mobile device it reports that storage mode when connected. And that device wasn't used to enable storage mode. So it is stored on my account (I have to login in the app to use it) or on the bike. I'll try some of the other commands later on to see if that shows any more info on storage mode. And tomorrow I can ask my dealer. I just realised I can no longer configure a charge schedule because of that. Or even update the charge target.

[karlh]

Hans - Here is a photo of the message.  As stated earlier, I only see it every other time I turn the key on.

[Hans2183]

Thanks karl that's a clear message, similar to the error messages that appear on dash. Doesn't show on mine.

I looked into the BMS and CCM state now and both report inactive storage mode.

Code: [Select]

****************************************
*               BMS Data               *
****************************************

// removed some output here

BMS snapshot:
 - BMS 2
     Module 2 info:
     - time since last PDO received 62
     - is registered     1
     - eligible for HV   1
     - pack voltage      109539
     - pack voltage oc   109539
     - soc               81
     - precharge command 0
     - precharge state   1
     - contactor command 1
     - contactor state   1
     - lock command      1
     - pack full         1
     - storage mode      Inactive
     - num_bricks        4
     - batt serial       *******

And

Code: [Select]

*************************************************************
* CCM Data                            *
*************************************************************

  UTC_time: Thu, 01/07/2021 16:04:10

                           Parameter,      Value,    In Test
                       last_packet_s,          0,          0
                      last_packet_ms,        212,          0
                             unit_id,     ******,          0
                              fw_ver,   2019.9.5,          0
                          fw_ver_raw,     0x9A45,          0
                              hw_ver,          0,          0
                       ccm_volts_x10,       1324,          0
                         ignition_on,          1,          0
                         ccm_accel_x,          0,          0
                         ccm_accel_y,          3,          0
                         ccm_accel_z,         15,          0

               gps_longitude_radians,          0,          0
                gps_latitude_radians,          0,          0
              gps_satellites_in_view,          0,          0
                           gps_is_on,          1,          0
                        gps_is_valid,          0,          0

                            cell_mcc,          0,          0
                            cell_mnc,          0,          0
                 cell_signal_percent,          9,          0
           cell_network_registration,          1,          0
                connected_to_starcom,          0,          0
                    production_state,        REG,          0

                              hb_soc,         80,          0
                     hb_chg_time_min,          0,          0
                           hb_ecu_id,          6,          0
                              hb_rev,         17,          0

                    bike_tipped_over,          0,          0
                    bike_is_charging,          0,          0
                    charge_completed,          0,          0
                    charger_attached,          0,          0
                        storage_mode,          0,          0
                        cell_disable,          0,          0
                  ccm_to_mbb_disable,          0,          0

                    usr_confirm_done,          0,          0
                      current_ecu_id,          0,          0
                     current_ecu_rev,          0,          0
                    current_ecu_bank,          0,          0
                  current_ecu_needed,          0,          0
                           ota_state,       NONE,          0


[Auriga]

Seems about right. Irritating about charge target. You can't even set charge target on the dash? I know Zero officially only supports the latest fw with the app, so maybe something changed? Here's the default mbb help menu in rev 18, note the new ltsm command and the removal of forcestrgmode.


karlh, that's normal. My demo bike is doing that as well.

[Jimnb11]

Question for jimnb11, can you ride the bike? If so, and the app shows you are in storage mode, than you are not in storage mode, because that prevents riding. If you charge it and it doesn't say on the dash that it's charging to a charge target of 60% automatically, you aren't in storage mode.
[/quote]

Auriga:
I can ride the bike. Matthew at Zero Support read the logs and said it was not in storage mode.

I've learned a couple things about the bike over the last several weeks. Cold weather will deplete the battery at a significant rate, much more than what the manual implies. If the bike is plugged in and the power pack is too cold to charge, the SOC will decrease by about 5%/day. If left unplugged, it’ll decrease less than 1%/day. Matthew is telling me there is not a problem.
I am unable to update to firmware 18. I moved the bike close to the router but the app couldn’t find the update. The only way I’ve ever updated the firmware is by accepting the bike’s invitation to do so.

Matthew suggested I take the bike into a dealer but the closest one is 140 miles away. I’m going to keep the battery charged up until the spring then hopefully everything will be fine and I’ll be able to update the firmware shortly after.

James

[Hans2183]

Then you have the same "issue" as mine where you've put a FW v17 equipped bike in storage mode using the latest app. The app since then reports that it's in storage mode on the battery screen (SOC, charge target and schedule) when connected but the bike itself never went into storage mode. So there are no popups on the bike and you can just keep using it.

Mine is currently at the dealer, if they have time left after installing the charge tank they'll update it over cable. That should resolve this state for mine and let me change the charging schedule and charge target again. I'll report back if it worked or not.

If you want to update the bike yourself you can just key it on and off a dozen of times, the popup appears from time to time. Not sure about the exact # though. You could try to force the update with the app but I tried that myself and didn't succeed. Might also be caused by the app being more up to date than the bike.

Update : can only report that the update also failed at the shop. Something with zero servers being down (I was told).

[Zelidar]

As Auriga wrote <<< ... can you ride the bike? If so, and the app shows you are in storage mode, than you are not in storage mode, because that prevents riding.  >>>>, and thank you for that information!

That is also my situation. I've been riding a couple of times this month all while the battery page of the app was showing a useless "Disable Storage Mode" link, useless because when activated it only showed that popup message about acting on the bike but nothing I've done on it has made any change so far. At least I can ride it just like before.

What I find strange is that this weekend I uninstalled and reinstalled the app and that didn't change that "Disable Storage Mode" situation, so this must have been read from the bike via bluetooth. It is bothering me a bit since I no longer can access the remaining functionality under that page.

[Crissa]

If the battery is too cold to charge, it's also inefficient at discharge.  That's what storage mode is for; you'd be better off pulling plugs otherwise.  The SoC would recover when the battery warms back up.

-Crissa