Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jawbreaker]

Got a question about the controller and BMS for the Zero range of bikes.

i'll presume that each bike is carrying the same controller and BMS setup (physical components and not setup of components such as firmware, etc)and am curious to know what is the limit of cells that the BMS and controller can handle (ie, how many volts and amps, not complete amount of cells).

i have a project in mind that isn't a bike and will have the adequate room to accommodate more cells/batteries.

my idea was in my setup to use TESLA cells (can see the groans now lol) but my plan was to strip down a complete battery and use 15/16 cells from a model p100d

this would be my ideal cell and i know these will become a lot cheaper in the future.

https://evshop.eu/en/batteries/124-6375wh-tesla-module-6s86p.html

i'm wondering how many i could run on stock controller and bms from a ZERO bike setup or would i be aiming too high with this type of cell (ie, the total amount of cells from a tesla being controlled and managed by the controller and BMS)

go easy, i'm doing research and am only looking for people with good knowledge of the ZERO to help me decide if this is a path i want to pursue or decide to not use the bms and controller from the zero and go something different. i can self criticise, ask me how i know? lol

just so people reading this are on the same wavelength as me in terms of design, i was going to design a cell (not dismantling the tesla cell but arrangement of cells) in a 5x3 design (5 cells across by 3 rows up) to total 15 in all.

now according to this website, https://www.quora.com/How-much-voltage-and-amperage-do-Tesla-battery-packs-have the packs are approximately between 300 and 400 amps total. and upto 1400~ or thereabouts in ludicrous mode (which i won't be dealing with AT ALL)

A couple of questions come to mind like:

if i configured the cells in a particular way, would both the controller and BMS be happy with this? ie, keeping within the limits of both.

please be nice as i'm not looking for criticism, just advice on what my best angle would be to go with this configuration.

if you need some elaboration on what i am doing, i will be happy to explain.


thankyou for your time.

[Sklith]

Wrong sub-forum it seems.

[Jawbreaker]

Wrong sub-forum it seems.

I'll fix this up when I get back to my PC..

[MVetter]

just so people reading this are on the same wavelength as me in terms of design, i was going to design a cell (not dismantling the tesla cell but arrangement of cells) in a 5x3 design (5 cells across by 3 rows up) to total 15 in all.

15 cells in series is a voltage range of 51-63 vdc with a nominal rating of 54.74 vdc. The inverters Zero uses do not run at that voltage.

Why would you want to switch from the Farasis pouch cells which are ridiculously energy-dense and have a ludicrous 10C discharge rate to less space-efficient cylinders?

[Jawbreaker]

i have an idea for a project involving a kia picanto and cannibalizing a zero as the drivetrain by mounting the motor to a transmission.

[MVetter]

You're kinda all over the place my man.

[caza]

If you aren't using the battery, there's no reason to use the BMS, use something more suited to the battery you're building.

Really if you're not using the entire drivetrain as-is, similar to how rich-rebuilds built his rat rod, you're pretty much just going to want to use the motor and controller. Everything else is too integrated to be worth the hassle.

I think you're mixing up some terminology here. Are you using bare tesla cells or are you saying you're using 15 full tesla modules? Seems like you're trying to use modules but you keep saying cells.

At any rate it seems like you need to do a lot more research and figure out exactly what you need for your project. You need to figure out how much power and capacity you need and work backwards from there.

If you're planning on converting a car, with a motor and controller from a motorcycle, you're going to have pretty underwhelming performance.

Start with the basics. How powerful was the motor in the stock car, and how powerful do you need it to be after its converted? As a very general rule, 1HP = 0.73KW. Now there are a lot of differences between how gas and electric motors are rated, but calculating how many KW you need like this will at least get you within the ballpark. Zero rates the motor in the SR as 70 hp or 52 kW. Just slightly above the 65hp your kia's motor is rated at. Are you going to be happy with the car if it has very nearly the same power after converted?

Back to your question, the SR has a 102v nominal battery pack. The controller is a Sevcon Gen 4 Size 6, capable of 550a for 120 seconds or 660a for 10 seconds.

Keep in mind that the programming environment for this controller is $900 and product support form sevcon is $150/hr. So if you plan to do any customization to it you should absolutely know what you are getting into.

[Jawbreaker]

If you aren't using the battery, there's no reason to use the BMS, use something more suited to the battery you're building.

Really if you're not using the entire drivetrain as-is, similar to how rich-rebuilds built his rat rod, you're pretty much just going to want to use the motor and controller. Everything else is too integrated to be worth the hassle.

the battery (modules/cells) i would be replacing with the telsa modules.


I think you're mixing up some terminology here. Are you using bare tesla cells or are you saying you're using 15 full tesla modules? Seems like you're trying to use modules but you keep saying cells.

cells in my mind were the modules, being each module is a cell so i interchanged the components name so i apologise for that..

At any rate it seems like you need to do a lot more research and figure out exactly what you need for your project. You need to figure out how much power and capacity you need and work backwards from there.


If you're planning on converting a car, with a motor and controller from a motorcycle, you're going to have pretty underwhelming performance.

Start with the basics. How powerful was the motor in the stock car, and how powerful do you need it to be after its converted? As a very general rule, 1HP = 0.73KW. Now there are a lot of differences between how gas and electric motors are rated, but calculating how many KW you need like this will at least get you within the ballpark. Zero rates the motor in the SR as 70 hp or 52 kW. Just slightly above the 65hp your kia's motor is rated at. Are you going to be happy with the car if it has very nearly the same power after converted?

yes i will be happy as i'm looking to stay within the cars approximate spec, just electrically.. the car itself is built as an "econocar" so i'm planning to stick with that until i gain more experience and understanding as well as a logical practical "experience" with an electric ev. i could go hire an ev and ride around for an hour and gain that first too. i basically want to transplant the bikes motor and controller into the car and wire it into the cars ignition, modding the kia picanto key to house the rfid chip to communicate with the bikes ignition circuit.



Back to your question, the SR has a 102v nominal battery pack. The controller is a Sevcon Gen 4 Size 6, capable of 550a for 120 seconds or 660a for 10 seconds.

i'm thinking i'll be driving highway speeds at maximum, which here is 100km/h so not overly stressing the motor.. i basically want to just be able to hit the car's max speed and that's it.. not a race car more a daily if all goes well.



Keep in mind that the programming environment for this controller is $900 and product support form sevcon is $150/hr. So if you plan to do any customization to it you should absolutely know what you are getting into.

i plan on keeping it stock until i understand how this setup works for this car.