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[Apollo]

I did thorough research into the financials before i bought my E bike.  Most intelligent people would do that.
WHO in their right mind wants to blow 30k for a bike to see the company go out of business the next year and they are stuck with a hugely expensive paperweight? 

   Doing some research on Energica and it looks like it's for sale.
Looking into the financials, it doesn't look good.  If you are concerned about long-term support (as we all should),
I would check with a financial advisor for their opinion on Energica's future.

[Specter]

I am seeing that Apollo, and TBH at this point, not sure what to think.
Companies get bought and sold all the time, doesn't mean they are going  out of business though.  Im hoping that is not the case with Energica as id love to see them stick around a while.  Sometimes companies get traded several times before they finally get a good leadership team that lets them do what they do best.  Im not saying E's root leadership is lacking but if they are owned by an entity that is just a big corporate conglomerate, their overall owners may not have a clue what they do, or care a thing about it, just have it make us money, yet want to nit pick and micromanage and play american politics bullshit and not LET the company thrive.  The sale might be the thing that lets them bloom and finally come out of their shell so to speak and hit the mainstream running.

All of this is just speculation though, as we don't know what is really going on and are going crazy over something in the newspaper, which might be mostly bullshit as well.  The lamestream media loves to push false narratives as well for the page click revenue it generates.  This could also just be a routine thing, we don't know at this point.

Beating up Morgan, although he's a hard core Energica fan, possibly even a salesman, does NOT mean he's on the core team that decides or is even privvy to this kind of thing.  Him being quiet does not mean they are hiding something, merely, he doesn't know either.

Now that everyone's concerns have been made public, AND been laid out pretty specific.  How Energica reacts will be a key factor to see what's really going on.  Hopefully we can hear a little something here. 

If they are losing money, the first thing they need to stop that is move the fuck OUT of Commiefornia.  That right there, while the move might ding them pretty good, will save them millions in the long run.  That state is NOT business friendly at all, which is why so many BIG companies are fleeing as well.  Silicon valley is it's own  communistic little marxist world, any other company that produces real products, needs to move where they are friendly towards business'.  Florida is a great state, so is Texas,  South Carolina is good too.  Many states that would love to have them there.  As it stands their stuff comes IN via Florida to begin with, because Cali's ports are such a disaster, and is trucked to them. that eats cash fast.  Why not move to florida, have the stuff delivered first time right to your door?  From what is being said, the shop they have there is not super big, so it's not like you are moving a billon dollar warehouse.

Hopefully we hear some genuine feedback and not speculation.

Aaron

[CagivaRider]

Perhaps it makes more financial sense to ship to an East Coast port (Scab probably) and truck to the West coast. It's a long trip through the Panama canal to the West coast ports.

[Apollo]

I am seeing that Apollo, and TBH at this point, not sure what to think.

Hopefully we hear some genuine feedback and not speculation.

Aaron

   Sorry, but I am confused by your first statement and your last.
     Can you refraise your first sentence? I am not sure what you are saying and would like to understand without any misconception.

>> Hopefully we hear some genuine feedback and not speculation.
    I'm not sure what this is either.  How do we determine if feedback is genuine and isn't speculation a subset of feedback?  I'm lost on this also.

[Specter]

You seem to be awful confused Apollo

Maybe you should check the financial's for Lightning as well:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1646406/000166919123001110/xslC_X01/primary_doc.xml

seems they are in a bit of a financial mess as well this year.

Let us know when you get your bike.  Be interested to hear how it runs.

Aaron

[Specter]

Perhaps it makes more financial sense to ship to an East Coast port (Scab probably) and truck to the West coast. It's a long trip through the Panama canal to the West coast ports.

At the time yes it does.  The west coast is a nightmare.  Their ports are backed up sometimes for months before the ships that come in, can actually unload, and then getting the connex' actually unloaded and/or shipped to where they need to be.  It's a Cali thing.....    East coast, and Texas for that matter, the ports are very open, ships are in and out in normal times, and boxes on the move in short order.  This is exactly what Energica and several other companies been doing, bringing it in East coast, and trucking to west.  Saves a ton of time, and believe it or not, still saves money too with even the extra steps in it.  That just goes to also highlight how high the cost of doing business in the West coast is, when they can essentially bring it in, and ship it across the country, for cheaper than getting it straight there with their prices, not to mention pissed off customers when something is delayed months.

Now we see companies are losing a lot of money.  Where to stop that loss?  1. Earn More  2. CUT LOSSES.   first logical step, get OUT of the place that is taxing you to death, and move to a more business friendly state, one would think.  If you are having an issue earning money then you need to cut the cost of doing business.

aaron

[Richard230]

My newspaper and TV reports since the summer have mentioned that the Oakland, CA, shipping terminal is no longer backed up and is functioning well. No more ships cooling their heels in the ocean, just a few waiting in the SF Bay for their turn to offload.

[Apollo]

If they are losing money, the first thing they need to stop that is move the fuck OUT of Commiefornia.  That right there, while the move might ding them pretty good, will save them millions in the long run. 
As it stands their stuff comes IN via Florida to begin with, because Cali's ports are such a disaster, and is trucked to them. that eats cash fast.  Why not move to florida, have the stuff delivered first time right to your door?  From what is being said, the shop they have there is not super big, so it's not like you are moving a billon dollar warehouse.
Aaron

  Energica's headquarters are not in CA as we all know.  A support, setup, and distribution area is.  This is mainly due to the super large number of units sold in CA.  I don't have any numbers, but CA has more motorcycle registrations than any other state by almost double.  CA also has more EV registrations than any other state by almost double. Most likely that's why they are in CA.

  Note that Ducati moved it's headquarters to CA a while back.(2003) They used to be East Coast based. (NJ)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ducati+North+America+Corporate+Headquarters/@37.4218949,-122.0602486,11.76z/data=!4m6!3m5!1s0x808fb5b476af9941:0x860448da97d7d32d!8m2!3d37.4100956!4d-121.9881435!16s%2Fg%2F1tj73v8g?entry=ttu
Honda, Yamaha, and Kawasaki are all headquartered in Southern CA.(and Hyundai, Nissan, Rivian)
Toyota Sales USA is in CA, but the business headquarters moved to Plano TX in 2017 to lessen the tax load.
I would suspect that someday in the future Tesla will shutdown it's CA plant.
There must be something good in CA.


Energica shows the US Headquarters in Mooresville NC, and Sales and Service to be in S.San Fran CA, but I suspect the NC location does most of the bike setups and shipping to dealers for the East Coast.
Energica may get a container of bikes to NC, then separate the bikes for West. They then load the
West Coast bikes onto a truck and ship.  Delivery via rail would be cheaper, but that requires more lead time and a much larger shipment.
I would highly suspect the business operations at Energica NC have already looked over the books to determine the most economical way to get the bikes to customers.
For more info on how the inner workings of Energica operate internally, is probably better answered by MVetter.
He probably has more knowledge of how things are done at Energica than us.

Apollo

[ultrarnr]

No, Energica doesn't do any bike setup for east coast bikes at Mooresville. Everything that gets delivered to the east coast get shipped from California. The containers are not broken down into east coast/west coast so everything gets shipped to CA and then sorted out.

[MVetter]

No, Energica doesn't do any bike setup for east coast bikes at Mooresville. Everything that gets delivered to the east coast get shipped from California. The containers are not broken down into east coast/west coast so everything gets shipped to CA and then sorted out.

Correct. Italy --> Port of Oakland --> SSF --> dealers and/or customers.

[Richard230]

BTY, I just read an article that said that shipping things through the Panama Canal is becoming a real problem. The large lake that supplies the water needed to operate the locks has been dropping due to climate changes that have resulted in the country getting less rain than in the past. This has resulted in a reduction in ship transits through the locks and ships being backed up into both oceans. Not only has the fee to cross the Canal been going up but some shippers are paying the country a premium to jump the line to cross the canal ahead of other ships when they have time-sensitive cargoes. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it is less expensive and likely faster to ship to Mooresville, transport the bikes to SSF via rail or truck, where they are assembled and checked over and then ship the assembled bikes directly to Energica dealers in the U.S.

[MVetter]

There was a time when bikes would go to the East Coast and be trucked to SSF. But Oakland is back online and it's my understanding that Oakland remains the better option. At least for now.

[Demoni]

BTY, I just read an article that said that shipping things through the Panama Canal is becoming a real problem. Not only has the fee to cross the Canal been going up but some shippers are paying the country a premium to jump the line to cross the canal ahead of other ships when they have time-sensitive cargoes. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it is less expensive and likely faster to ship to Mooresville, transport the bikes to SSF via rail or truck, where they are assembled and checked over and then ship the assembled bikes directly to Energica dealers in the U.S.

The rabbit hole that is the logistics of international sea freight is a deep one. Panama is a unfortunate choke point for cargo traveling from the Atlantic to ports on the Pacific side of North America, and they know it. So long as the price they charge for passage is less than the additional time and fuel costs associated with a ship taking a Pacific route, shipping companies will keep paying.

Early 2021 saw a massive spike of goods arriving in US ports causing major backlogs. West coast ports were impacted the hardest partially due to stricter Covid restrictions, limiting cargo throughput. We were seeing delays of 45+ days for containers arriving to the port of Oakland. The temporary solution was to use East coast ports and then truck cargo cross country to our location in CA. Also during this time there was a imbalance in the distribution of containers used to transport goods on ships. Too many containers were arriving in the US and not enough were leaving to supply the international demand, causing major spikes in shipping prices.

Things have thankfully returned to "normal". All current shipments of Energica motorcycles come through the port of Oakland.

[Motoproponent]

Did Apollo ever get his bike back? I've seen some advocacy starting to follow Lightning around on social media. Like a Lightning employee will post about their awesome bike and someone will pop into the comments with something along the lines of "that's great for you and imma let you finish, but did [Apollo] ever get his bike back?"

[Specter]

They probably need some more pre purchase deposits, to buy the parts needed to fix his battery so they can get it back to him.

That is the one part I simply don't understand about his situation.  We have to discuss the plan forward?  What's there to discuss, put a new battery in.  Unless he bought the bike as a second hand used bike with an 'as is' warranty on it, (meaning no warranty) then it really should be a no brainer as  I doubt there is much anything he could have done in the short time he had the bike to molest it to the point where it failed like it did w/o there being a problem in the first place with it.

I know ive been tearing my bike around the track with absolutely no battery problems with it, in fact to be totally honest Im kind of surprised the battery is lasting as much as it is per charge, id have expected a harder drain on it!  Even if he was racing it, even THAT should not have killed his battery like that.  Hell, even Mesa slamming his bike in the 170's has not ate his battery yet.

Id love to go side by side with his lightning on the track, I think it'd be a blast TBH.  Drag strip would be neat too, or somewhere one could open them up w/o having to worry about the blue light special too much.  I won't hold my breath though.

aaron