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[Apollo]

Next up is my bike, a Strike R.  I requested no logos as I plan to use Vinyl Wrap to play with the
colors and graphics to my liking.
I requested the Black Wheels, silver upper triple clamp, and dark windscreen.  I also requested a shortened license plate holder.
It's not a "Tidy Tail", but about as short as Richard could make it and still "look" legal. I forget all the mini-options I asked for, but after discussing with Richard, Lighting did all the reasonable requests.  I asked about Dual Motors and was told "NO, you won't like that!"  I thought dual 255hp motors would be fun!

[MVetter]

..."Selling 2 or 3 a year"...  I am not sure where this number comes from.

Again, and I was very clear on this, the data Lightning provides publicly indicates that in 2021 they sold $175,790 worth of motorcycles. They're only making LS-218s and Strike Carbon or Carbon R models. The LS-218 is $38,000 and the Strike Carbon is $20k and the Strike R starts at $27k.

So, if in 2021 they sold only LS-218s that would indicate 4.6 motorcycles. If they sold only Strike Carbons it would indicate 8.78 motorcycles.

In 2022 they sold $82,992 worth of motorcycles. If that is LS-218 bikes it's 2.1 bikes. If it's base Strike R bikes it's 3 bikes. If it's Strike C bikes it's 4.15 bikes. Again, I did not create these numbers. I don't know how you get 25-50 bikes out of the financial data they are legally obligated to say is accurate.

[Apollo]

And, just for fun, here's a custom LS-218 delivered not too long ago.

LS-218 built for drag racing with swing arm extensions - 250 HP at the rear wheel, 275 HP at the motor shaft - over 1,100 lb ft of torque at the rear wheel - 490 lbs. - under 2 lbs/HP - verified numbers on the Dynojet chassis dynomometer. It is a beast!

[Apollo]

..."Selling 2 or 3 a year"...  I am not sure where this number comes from.

Again, and I was very clear on this, the data Lightning provides publicly indicates that in 2021 they sold $175,790 worth of motorcycles. They're only making LS-218s and Strike Carbon or Carbon R models. The LS-218 is $38,000 and the Strike Carbon is $20k and the Strike R starts at $27k.

So, if in 2021 they sold only LS-218s that would indicate 4.6 motorcycles. If they sold only Strike Carbons it would indicate 8.78 motorcycles.

In 2022 they sold $82,992 worth of motorcycles. If that is LS-218 bikes it's 2.1 bikes. If it's base Strike R bikes it's 3 bikes. If it's Strike C bikes it's 4.15 bikes. Again, I did not create these numbers. I don't know how you get 25-50 bikes out of the financial data they are legally obligated to say is accurate.

I'm not sure how the numbers match up either, but in the last few months I have been haunting their shop, I've seen a number of new bikes go out.  I just posted about new 3 bikes ready for pickup right now!  They appear to be cranking them out.

I also asked about NACS charging in the future and was told they are working with Tesla about licensing and such.  Richard also said he is planning to build an "upgrade?" kit for people with bikes who want to change their charging systems to NACS.  I haven't heard anything from other manufacturers, but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

[MVetter]

I'm not sure how the numbers match up either

And you're fine with that, yes? Financials not jiving with what you're being told?

[Apollo]

I'm not sure how the numbers match up either

And you're fine with that, yes? Financials not jiving with what you're being told?

  You seem to be the one that's doing all the telling.
I am showing factual pictures of what I see at the Lighting factory.  I don't dig into their financials, I focus on riding bikes and having fun.  If you have financials that show they sell 3 bikes a year, then you are correct. That is not enough for them to be in business.  And yet they are in business cranking out new bikes. Mine included as promised with no upcharges or delays.
  It seems like with every post you have something very negative to say about this little company and it's hard to understand why.  If they bother you so much, why don't you play some other place?  I don't think they are hurting you.  Is there another agenda?  Do you need to post your financials?

[MVetter]

Hey man I'm just asking questions.

[Richard230]

It seems as if their "engineering services" are what is keeping Lightning financially afloat. Building bikes is more of a sideline for them.

[wavelet]

It seems as if their "engineering services" are what is keeping Lightning financially afloat. Building bikes is more of a sideline for them.

Yup. The LS-218 was never a production motorcycle. The only 2 accounts of one I've seen on the Web by an owner  were for highly customized non-street-legal racebikes. One was on this forum, for a bike with stronger engine, no lights and (possibly) a smaller battery.

The Strike was announced in April 2019 starting at $13K. I've yet to see any actual owner description, except for one motorcycie novice who was sold an incomplete prototype with half the battery (MVetter checked out that bike, as I recall).
So no, Lightning isn't a production motorcycle company.

[MVetter]

I can confirm the following motorcycles:

Guido, who works at Lightning, purchased a purple LS-218. It was involved in a traffic collision and, as far as I know has never been fully repaired. Guido left his job at Apple and now works at Lightning.

Kevin B purchased the aforementioned #lightningstrikenumberone. It was supposed to be Carbon specced but he took delivery of the base model with half the battery and no DC charging. It took ~2 years for them to upgrade his bike.

Kevin K purchased a Strike Carbon and seems happy with it.

James G purchased a Strike Carbon and they, like Kevin B, delivered a base model with promise of upgrades later. James is a track day junkie and avid motorcyclist and pressured them more aggressively for his bike to be completed. Not only did they upgrade the battery pack, they also changed the motor, controller, sprockets etc which LOOKED like what I've seen on the Strike R aka the same motor in the LS-218. I assumed it was a Strike R but Hatfield said it wasn't. I met with James to test the DC charging capabilities on the bike and helped him get it going. Later James moved to Arizona and Lightning failed to put glycol in the liquid cooling system. As it was just water it froze in the Arizona winter and all the coolant lines froze and broke. James had to send the bike back to Hollister for repairs. Current status unknown.

Jeff C paid for a Carbon and they delivered him a base model. This is the unit I have most direct experience with because Jeff lives 30 miles from me and was a fledgling motorcyclist. Jeff wasn't as assertive as James and for years was given the runaround on upgrades, notably the half-sized battery, DC charging, and AC charging where he had 3.3 instead of the promised 6.6kW. I have seen Jeff's bike up close and personal many times. Not wanting to incite drama I never took anything on it apart. But I did take a lot of photos and videos so I can back up claims I make about build quality. Not going to do that here, though. Jeff claims he was constantly ignored, gaslit, and sometimes accused of tampering with the bike by Lightning as they took a long time and several visits to get upgrades. During one of the times his bike was in the shop, Guido and Kevin B decided to go for a joyride from Hollister to San Francisco. Kevin B took his bike, and Guido took Jeff's bike without asking.  How do I know it was Jeff's bike? They photographed the trip and the plates were visible. Jeff was not happy. In the end he never got everything he paid for and sold the bike out of frustration to a guy who works at the Costco in Salinas. He's given up on motorcycling entirely.

edit- forgot one!
Steven S aka Florida Man purchased a yellow LS-218 with a shamrock embroidered on the seat for track days. It did not have DC fast charging on it. After its arrival in Florida, Steven appeared to run into legal troubles and abandoned a trailer on the side of the road containing the LS-218, 2 Livewires, a Zero SR/S, and several Energica powertains. It is presumed to have been repossessed and liquidated at auction. Current whereabouts unknown.

[Specter]

Given a majority of the e bikes seem to be sold mostly in Florida and California, is there some way you can queue or poll the DMV and ask, how many of XXX bikes,  YYY cars or whatever have been tagged this year?  They could tell you, yes we issued 200 plates for the Lightning 123 bike?

That should give an idea if any are sneaking out and not being reported to the IRS for some reason.

Aaron

[Apollo]

Given a majority of the e bikes seem to be sold mostly in Florida and California, is there some way you can queue or poll the DMV and ask, how many of XXX bikes,  YYY cars or whatever have been tagged this year?  They could tell you, yes we issued 200 plates for the Lightning 123 bike?

That should give an idea if any are sneaking out and not being reported to the IRS for some reason.

Aaron

     As it seems like digging into Lightning's financials is the primary concern of some people, why don't we dig into the financials of other manufacturers?
     Did anyone check into the financials for Energica?  Honda?  VW? (They are in debt hell. 196.79B for Sept. 30, 2023). Toyota (Also in debt hell, September 2023: $223.34 B, but they still sell cars).
     I keep getting the feeling some people have ulterior motives as opposed to helping others.
     Trying to drag a smaller motorcycle manufacturer down looks to be constant. 
     Is there a reason for this?
   

[MVetter]

why don't we dig into the financials of other manufacturers?

People do.

Constantly.

[Richard230]

If I was going to buy a new electric motorcycle, I would want to have some confidence that they were financially stable enough to stay in business for the many years that I would like to own and ride their motorcycle before I buy it.

[Specter]

You show up out of nowhere, playing captain save - a - ho  for Lightning, then when the people who are asking legit questions, ask them, you get all butthurt about it.   How much are they paying you to shill for them?  Or are you one of them trolling?

Or maybe, are you the ONE bike they are actually going to manufacture with you perfectly positioned to do the tictoc series on it, to try to undo all the earned bad rep they got? so they can then sucker others into sending them $$$ since their other money raising efforts failed miserably?

Next step I guess is you flooding the boards with your bike and saying how wonderful awesome bla bla bla it is, yet no other bikes will be made for the rest of the year?  Shhh on that, just send $$$$ for preorders !!!  they need to pay themselves,  payday is coming up.

Of course people want to help the small guy, but there are a ton of crooks and losers out there too.  If someone is blowing a lot of smoke yet you never see any fire, it makes one begin to wonder, is this another scam, or dead dream?  But hey if you want to be the nice guy and give your money to a company that will potentially be gone in a year or so, and if you ever have problems, well good luck with that !!  Go for it.

I did thorough research into the financials before i bought my E bike.  Most intelligent people would do that.
WHO in their right mind wants to blow 30k for a bike to see the company go out of business the next year and they are stuck with a hugely expensive paperweight?  One that might spontaneously catch on fire at that given the battery tech.

I wanted a Rivian, but after watching them for a while, good thing I didn't just blindly throw money at them.  Their specs keep quietly shrinking... a lot like Tesla's power wall specs did.  But hey, Rivian sends a shit ton of fluffy bunny hugging e mails out, and their newest update lets you recycle those unicorn farts into an air freshener in the cabin !!!!  HURRY reserve yours NOW !!!!!!!  It's only $1000 !!!!!

This isn't about Rivian though, this is about a company that has been huge on promises, pretty much nothing on actual product, yet promising more dreams, which are to be conjured out of what??

This 'process' you describe sounds more like a Brady Bunch rerun.

I sincerely hope you get your bike, and you have a lot of fun with it, and if / when it has problems, you are able to get support on it.  Although YOUR mind seems made up as well, a lot of the grief, these companies are getting, was brought upon them, by themselves.

food for thought.

Aaron