Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[MVetter]

Morgan, would you want them to put the IP in a trophy case?  They bought it to use it.

You sat through that hour and half long self-aggrandizement session on Zoom. You saw them talk down about all the other manufacturers simply buying "off the shelf" inverters, motors, battery modules (which is bullshit) while THEY. THEY built it all from the ground up. Themselves*! Which is why they're so much better than everyone else!

*except the motor may be Mission's motor
*and the inverter
*and the batteries are from Samsung

They appear to be just patting themselves on the backs for things they haven't done while lording their non-achievements over the rest of the industry who, by the way, are working very freaking hard and have gone through a lot to create the stuff they have. At the end it's the arrogance I find so insulting. And hypocrisy.

[Crissa]

They bought Mission's IP, why are you upset they're using it?

-Crissa

[MVetter]

maybe re-read the post above until it sinks in

[Crissa]

I'm pretty sure my statement holds up.

There's a big difference between graphing their numbers outside the envelope and just being sour.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

You should definitely point out the flaws in my assertions.

[Crissa]

You should definitely point out the flaws in my assertions.

They bought Mission's IP, why are you upset they're using it?

[ultrarnr]

Looking at the specs I am not seeing ABS, Traction control, rider modes or adjustable regen mentioned. Did I miss them?

[NEW2elec]

Yeah ultrarnr, I don't see them listed at the moment either.  I want to say they talked about it in some videos but I wouldn't know where to look right now.
I know they have to have ABS to sell in the EU (and Canada it seems), which they have said they wanted to do.

I'll get back to ya on that one.

I have seen that the bike has a left side lever.  That may be a rear brake lever because of the Shift foot peg movement but that's just my guess. 
It "could" be a regen lever but again that's just a guess on my part.

Edit: I found at least one picture of a rear right side brake pedal so...  That (again) "might" be the unicorn "adjustable regen lever" that so many people have said they wanted. 

[wavelet]

Looking at the specs I am not seeing ABS, Traction control, rider modes or adjustable regen mentioned. Did I miss them?

Multiple magazine stories have mentioned that the bikes (the Hypersport at least) will have ABS as well as TCS.
I don't recall rider modes being mentioned, but AFAIK virtually all mid-priced+ are fully computer controlled anyway, and have them.
Haven't seen adjustable regen being mentioned either.

[wavelet]

Hi, New2Elec, came to talk to you and the others about the HyperDrive revelation, but I'm clearly already late to the party 


Nevertheless, I'm gonna leave here a link to the HyperDrive features Damon have posted on their blog:

https://blog.damon.com/the-numbers-behind-damons-motorcycle-powertrain/

Hope you find it interesting.

The Hyperdrive part of the blog post is content-free PR obfuscation. "HyperBoleDrive" would be more appropriate.
I doesn't say anything about what's special about it vs. any other BEV. "multi-variant" is a joke -- any BEV with multiple battery options does this, and they also limit charging, battery output (and so motor power) according to the specific model they're present in.

[wavelet]

Generally, I don't see the release of two additional models as a good thing this early. It creates a lot more work in terms of engineering testing, production configuration management, and fragments inventory.
They have far too much on their plate as it is, for a startup.

I expect they suddenly got cold feet about the $24K price, but still -- they don't really now how sales will go at this point. It would make a lot more sense to have a couple of prototypes of the 15kWh-battery bike ready to go, but not announce it, and then if after real sales start it looks like price is a major factor' they can launch it then.

The 11kWh variant is ridiculous -- the range is unbalanced vs. the rest of the bike, and there's nothing IMO it makes sense to use it for; also, I seriously doubt there are people who would be fine with spending $17K on the 11kWh but not $20K on the 15kWh.

[NEW2elec]

Let's take the 2018 Zero DS and DSR for example.  In the US for that year both had Zero's 14.4 kWh battery.
The motor and controller were the difference in the two bikes' performance levels. It made it easier for them to build up a lot of the same battery packs but they had to have two "shelves" for different motors and controllers.

A Tesla S85 and their P100D also clearly have more than "just" a different battery pack.

Damon's approach uses the same HyperDrive unit for all variants with the battery cell configuration being the difference.

This allows bulk builds for the units and bulk buys for battery cells which should help to keep costs and manufacturing complexity down.

Wavelet have you applied to take a test ride?

[NEW2elec]

Sorry I see you made a third post.

My last post addressed the first two points of your last post.

As for the third.
For my own preferred riding style I want range.  Where I ride there is one gas station that I ever go past and no charging stations AC or DC so it's range for me.

So many other people who live in areas where both AC and CCS charging is plentiful have continuously beat the drum of "faster charging cures all problems". 
This bike's setup would go over very well in the EU (and the UK) with their license and other restrictive regulations making a very powerful bike a hassle to own with jumping through so many hoops.

[wavelet]

Let's take the 2018 Zero DS and DSR for example.  In the US for that year both had Zero's 14.4 kWh battery.
The motor and controller were the difference in the two bikes' performance levels. It made it easier for them to build up a lot of the same battery packs but they had to have two "shelves" for different motors and controllers.

A Tesla S85 and their P100D also clearly have more than "just" a different battery pack.

Damon's approach uses the same HyperDrive unit for all variants with the battery cell configuration being the difference.

Looks like I was unclear. The battery config is not the only difference.
If max power is different but the motor & inverter are physically the same, it's SW-configured; nothing unique to Damon about that.
Tesla has has several cases where two different models had the same physical motor, but a SW limitation on how much power they would let through the inverter.
The Hyundai Kona EV has two variants, one with a 39kWh battery & 100kW motor, and the other 64kWh battery & 150kW;
AFAIK, the motor is the same physically, a giveaway is that the peak torque is identical.

However, I'd certainly consider the HV cables to be part of the drivetrain. If all three variants have the same cables, the two lower-power ones are overs-pecified, meaning the cables are both more expensive  & heavier  (lots of copper) than they need to be; maybe the difference isn't that much, I'm not sure.

This allows bulk builds for the units and bulk buys for battery cells which should help to keep costs and manufacturing complexity down.

Yes, but apart from the inventory commonality, there is still the extra engineering complexity of the software.
You either need 3 different SW builds for the 3 variants, which is a pain (and every time you make a change, you really need to test all three separately, as edge cases might be very different: The bike variants have different weights, different acceleration envelopes, different motor-heating curves and so on.)

I'll buy that the adjustable-ergonomics system is independent of the power/battery variant (it also needs SW, by the way, to deal with issues, e.g., one of the motors doesn't work, so you don't want, say, footpegs changing and handlebars not, or, even worse, the left footpeg changing and right one not).

However, the Situational Awareness system does need to know the bike's performance envelope in terms of acceleration & braking, in order to identify threats.

For a SW-heavy product, this is a configuration management nightmare. As a former SW professional, this is a no-no for a small company, particularly one making a safety-critical product.

Wavelet have you applied to take a test ride?

I'm two continents too far for that, unfortunately. I'll have to live vicariously through you folks 

[NEW2elec]

Looking at the specs I am not seeing ABS, Traction control, rider modes or adjustable regen mentioned. Did I miss them?

I contacted them and they confirmed both ABS and Traction Control.  They said they would add it to the specs at the next web page update.
They said they couldn't confirm what the left side lever was for at this time.