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[NEW2elec]

Well, lets go with innocent until proven guilty.  I think that's fair.

As for Lucid, of course I used them as a closer to production automotive example of the type of advancements I expect from the EV world.
As for slipping in a higher battery capacity for reviews, I'm sorry man that makes no sense at all.  If Lucid was using a, whatever, 250kWh battery pack to get that range why not advertise it as such?
A bigger battery number would actually impress an EV novice more and likely sell better than explaining drag coefficient and Ohm's law.

That's really all I want to talk about Lucid, I wish them well and competition makes things better in the long run.

As for Damon I wish people would be a little more open minded to idea that there can be real jumps in performance and ability especially in this tech sector.

As some people on here had talked about maybe the full spec Hypersport was over the top with speed and performance for them now there are other options offered at lower specs and a lower price.  It not only increases the appeal but also puts the bikes in the reach of more diverse budgets.   

They feel the first test ride events will start in the Spring so sign up for one and see for yourself what it's all about.

[NEW2elec]

And here's a write up from Adventure Rider.com explaining things in a bit more detail.

https://advrider.com/damon-reveals-hyperdrive-multi-variant-powertrain-and-two-new-models/

[princec]

As for Damon I wish people would be a little more open minded to idea that there can be real jumps in performance and ability especially in this tech sector.

I'm as open minded as the next guy, but numbers are numbers. With motors already running at >95% efficiency, they're simply not going to get noticeably better, and drag coefficients rarely achieving more than a few % better, I don't see how anyone can make their kwh suddenly go so much further than anyone else. There aren't any radical shapes here. These bikes will go more or less exactly the same distance as Energicas or Zeros on the same energy with the single greatest factor being how fast they're ridden.

Performance wise though, absolutely. Entirely plausible they can get sub-3s 0-60 and 150mph without any trouble at all.

Cas

[shayan]

As for Damon I wish people would be a little more open minded to idea that there can be real jumps in performance and ability especially in this tech sector.

I'm as open minded as the next guy, but numbers are numbers. With motors already running at >95% efficiency, they're simply not going to get noticeably better, and drag coefficients rarely achieving more than a few % better, I don't see how anyone can make their kwh suddenly go so much further than anyone else. There aren't any radical shapes here. These bikes will go more or less exactly the same distance as Energicas or Zeros on the same energy with the single greatest factor being how fast they're ridden.

Performance wise though, absolutely. Entirely plausible they can get sub-3s 0-60 and 150mph without any trouble at all.

Cas

Not that i'm saying Damon is fully legit, but isnt the efficiency argument similar to how Bolt 60kWh gives better range than say the Leaf with a 62kWh battery? I guess the efficiency of how the energy produced by the motor is utilized at the wheels comes into play too.

[Fran K]

I see the picture from that advrider address posted a few posts back.

It sure looks like they are committed to essentially the type of "frame flex"
Does the swingarm and linkage attachment points really look robust compared to the "competition"

And as to the competiton,  a podcast linked perhaps yesterday or the day before stated first deliveries to customers very end of 2021, which is 12 or 13 months.  Kind of hard to really say what the "competition" is going to be when one can actually get one in a timely manner.  How long was it between the Harley electric bike test ride tour and actual delivery?  Any bearing to Damon's time line test rides supposed to start in April i read.

And then this   "Machine Learning – Every time a rider responds to a threat warning by swerving or braking, the onboard system captures and tags the incident details in 360º. It then transmits data to Damon’s cloud over its embedded wireless connection so that the system can learn to detect more threats faster over time.
Hypersport specifications"  I guess only a certain subset of motorcycle or any vehicle buyers want to be spied on.

Fran

[Crissa]

When you can control what's being uploaded, are you being spied upon?

That reminds me, I need to plug in my 360 camera

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Anyone wanna do some math? Let's take a closer look at this here battery pack they're talking about. Article claims 450vdc nominal. It's safe to assume they're using 21700 cells which have a 3.65 nominal voltage. 450/3.65 = 123.287.... call it 124S. But how many parallel? Well, we need to have a guess at what cells they're using. Let's give them the best fighting chance possible with the incredibly energy-dense Samsung 50G that are solely reserved for EV manufacturers, unlike the 50E available to enthusiasts. They have a 5000mAh capacity.

This battery cell weighs 69 grams and, as a 21700, has a diameter of 21mm and a length of 70mm. They're about 24 cubic centimeters as cylinders, but you have to count the dead space around them so it's easier to think of them as square, and as such are about 31 cubic centimeters. Someone else should do the rest of the geometry.

Let's dig in a little more. A 124S pack of those cells would yield ~2.26kWh. You'd need about 9 of them to yield 20kWh. That is.... 1,116 batteries in that pack. That's ~170 lbs of just raw cells, excluding bus bars, housings, and other battery-related accoutrements.

Of course that's using nominal values. I'm going to assume the article is wrong and that 450vdc is the MAX proposed voltage and I'll use the generous 4.2vdc value per cell. That drops it down to 107S 9P and a slim 963 cells.

So, about 1000 individual battery cells in the absolute best case scenario available today.

[Frank]

It's all vaporware until they publish more detail....

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

[NEW2elec]

Frank did you read the article posted above?  They put out a good bit of info at this stage of the game.
And more importantly have you signed up for a test ride?

Now that I know your one of the speed demons of the group I'd love to get your impressions of the bike.

Again with me being in Atlanta and Damon being in Vancouver, I may need to fly in somewhere for my own test ride.

[Frank]

It still looks like a bunch of design goals, specs and computer renderings to me.  It's great marketing (and I really hope they can deliver on some of their claims) but until there's some sort of independent verification...

If they really can deliver 200 HP/200 Nm torque in a 48# motor- kudos to them because I don't think anyone else has been able to do so.  But the numbers seem a bit convenient i.e. 200, 200, 200 HP, nm, MPH.  I haven't actually signed up for a test ride yet but I did confirm that they intend to market in both the US and Canada.  Once they actually start production I would love to try one out but I would expect them to focus on population centers and that's about the polar opposite of where I'm located.  Maybe I should sign up, just to let them know someone else might be interested in the eastern part of the continent.

[NEW2elec]

Yes Frank sign up.  Nothing to lose really.  It's always best to be your own verification.   
I agree they will likely hit the big EV customer centers first.  A few stops in CA seems likely.
So much of what can be done will be due to the Covid situation but that goes for everything.

[NEW2elec]

Morgan, and others, I feel your heart's in the right place by trying to help people not get burned by false claims.

But we have to expect new companies to come out and some will be better than the ones that are already out.

I've been a member of this Forum for over five years now and every model year change there is a wish list thread for what features and improvements people want from the new model year's offerings.

This company is putting together so many of the aspects of what people said they wanted in an electric bike and it seems like now they can't believe it can finally happen.

1.  More performance.   That's an off the chart CHECK.
2   Top of the line range.   That's a check until "proven" otherwise.
3.  CCS charging.  Another check.
4.  Standard 6kW AC charging.  Check.
5.  Liquid cooling for all systems.  Check again.
6.  Aerodynamic.  Not only is that a check but it has a motorcycling first for a sport bike that changes the riding position for speed or upright for city or back road riding.
7.  Hell even LED lighting.  Check.

Plus features people didn't even think about.
1.  The Copilot safety warning system.
2.  Rear facing 1080p camera with dash display, along with other cameras for a nearly full view of your surroundings.
3.  A 4G internet connection for updates and likely (not sure yet) GPS and charging status sent to your phone.

Best of all they aren't just saying trust us, they are saying sign up to take a test ride and see for yourself.  No charge no obligation.

Now yes they do ask for a $100 (refundable) deposit to make a reservation, to buy a bike, but that is more than fair and is pretty much industry standard to weed out some bots or other shenanigans .
With 4 variations of the Hypersport now offered people have choices and can change which bike they want to apply their deposit to up until it's ready to be made.  Then you get the bike you said you wanted.

I'm very happy to have a group bring so many of the features people said they wanted together in a new platform.
There are risks involved with any new startup but this is an impressive team resume and the product shows they have been doing their research into what people want in an electric bike.

[princec]

It all does sound too good to be true! I reckon they'll come in looking to be remarkably similar to the Energicas.
No mention of weight in the wishlist there by the way...

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Yes, thank you Princec.  Lower weight as well.

[Richard230]

I will admit to knowing nothing about the Damon company or their product, but their claims, goals and "spin" just reminds me too much of Skully helmets, Lightning, Mission Motors and what seems like the dozens of wonderful battery announcements over the past 20 years. When I see performance and technical claims that appear to be way beyond what is readily available on the consumer market for a similar price (I am sorry) I just start rolling my eyes. I keep thinking that much of this hype is to attract investment funds and less about manufacturing a mass market-ready vehicle. It is relatively easy to build a few very expensive and impressive vehicles with amazing features, but not so easy to manufacture them in quantity at a price the general public can afford.

Then there is the problem of setting up a retail sales/distribution/servicing network. Not at all easy to do and this can take years to accomplish.

There is also the problem of buying off-the-shelf components that are needed to produce a fully-functional vehicle in large quantities. These would include battery cells, controllers, frames, wheels, tires, brake systems (including ABS electronics), suspension components, plastic parts, and the various unique components needed to make Damon's motorcycle do what they claim it will do. All of that stuff will be sourced from other established manufacturers, who will need to be convinced to supply them in quantity, will likely want to be paid up front in cash and will also not be providing any volume price discounts. (I doubt Damon would want to advertise that they are using Fast Ace suspension components, as an example.)

Designing a new vehicle can be relatively easy when you have smart engineers and designers doing the work, but putting one into volume production and making a go of it is an entirely different kettle of fish. Just check out the names of the different electric motorcycle brands on this forum. How many of them are still around? And I still wonder what happened to Alta Motors?  If anyone should still be around you would think it would have been them.    It is a tough world out there.