Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mistasam]

The DC infrastructure is growing so rapidly that there's no point in sticking with AC for road trips.  I'd love a faster DC charging limit, like 30kW  rather than a painfully slow 6kW AC charger.

[heroto]

YMMV, but here in the southern Appalachians, a moto Mecca, L1 and 2 AC are the main options at present. Energica's promised L2 3kW is barely tolerable, but in fact it's really only 2 kW on a good day. Which works fine overnight but o/w no, just no. The Energicas are far ahead of Zero on many levels, but the lame AC charging is limiting and frustrating.

[DonTom]

The DC infrastructure is growing so rapidly that there's no point in sticking with AC for road trips. 

  Still many issues these days, with DC Fast charge in the USA at some locations.

Here is one I noticed today in Hawthorne, NV. The DC fast charging is "Out of Service". All of it.

But both the 6.6KW  J-1772s are working fine at this same location.

I find a lot more J1772s than DC fast charge here in NV as well as when far of the main roads. And the J1772 is MUCH more reliable than the DC fast chargers that all run a complicated program that causes problems. J-1772 is very simple by comparison. J-1772 is simply an AC source--not a charger at all.

-Don-  Tonopah, NV (RV trip with Zero DS)

[Crissa]

AC may be more reliable, but DC will always be faster.  And lighter.

-Crissa

[mistasam]

AC may be more reliable, but DC will always be faster.  And lighter.

Truuuuue that.  Energica has said they aren't interested in making a 6kW AC charger for the bikes so the world's just gonna have to accommodate by installing more DC stations.  J1772 is so 2018 

[wavelet]

AC may be more reliable, but DC will always be faster.  And lighter.

-Crissa

Long term, there may well be a shift to primarily DC charging outside homes/workplaces; however, DC charging at any appreciable rate is going to be more expensive because of demand charges (at least until stationary battery storage for buffering drops a lot in price), and the equipment is expensive since a higher-wattage grid connection is necessary.
That in turns makes DC stations economical only in highly-trafficked areas, which outside urban centers means along major highways.

IOW, I can't see DC charging stations placed along remote scenic backroads, which is where most of my riding trips are spent (I consider motorway travel on a motorcycle a necessary evil, but don't enjoy it -- locally, we call the motorway runs to get to the backroads "administrative riding").

Now it's true that for motorcycles, a 30kW-35kW rate might be sufficient -- we don't need 350kW chargers -- and the demand charges for that might not be prohibitive, but for the appreciable future, e-motorcycles will remain a rounding error within the overall BEV fleet (not counting commuter e-scooters  which only charge at home), so I don't expect any charging network to install DC chargers focused on motorcyclists.

OTOH, locations that attract motorcycles, like restaurants on scenic mountain roads, might very well find it worthwhile to install L2 chargers.

(*)for sport-touring, my main interest, where I want to be able to do at least 150mi on a charge @ 70mph.

[reini]

At least here in Austria it seems as if much more (also smaller) DC charging stations are being built. Most recently, all dealerships from the VW-group now have at least 25 kW chargers installed which are perfect for our use case (gives around 16-18 kW).
They usually are paid, but can be unlocked with most of my cards/apps. Currently, this means 0.39 EUR/kWh for me.

[ultrarnr]

If you look on Energica's web site you will not see L1 charging mentioned. This is because they have slowed down L1 charging speeds so that with the 21.5 kWh battery it takes 24 hours + to fully charge. So if you are going on a road trip you need to stay at a place with L2 charging for overnight charging. I used to stay at the Microtel hotel in Robbinsville, NC when riding in western NC. They had outlets on one end of the building near the parking lot. Very easy to ride up and plug in and you weren't in the way. I did this with my Zero and Eva 107. Next morning you were fully charged. But places to stay in that area that have L2 charging are very limited and several are REALLY pricy. Bottom line is for people who are considering a new Energica you really have to consider installing a 220 volt outlet for L2 charging at home.

[princec]

Compromise not often talked about: would be happy to have 11KW DC charging... if it means we didn't have to lug 11KW of OBC equipment around with the vehicle. Moving the expensive-to-shrink-and-cool ACDC converter into the fuelling station is a win I think, where its size doesn't matter and it can be made large, simple, and robust. I'd much prefer to not have any AC OBC and all public charging to be DC. For home charging we'd simply move the OBC electronics to the wall. This will upset everyone invested in AC charging of course but right now *everyone* in EVs in a minority so a few feathers could afford to be ruffled.

Cas

[reini]

If you look on Energica's web site you will not see L1 charging mentioned. This is because they have slowed down L1 charging speeds so that with the 21.5 kWh battery it takes 24 hours + to fully charge. So if you are going on a road trip you need to stay at a place with L2 charging for overnight charging.
[...]
 Bottom line is for people who are considering a new Energica you really have to consider installing a 220 volt outlet for L2 charging at home.

The reason for this might simply be that the US market wasn't their primary consideration when designing the bikes. In Europe 220V is standard and you can charge with 2.X kW everywhere, which enables overnight charging. I'm not using public L2 charging since I have to bring the Type 2 charging cable. DC on the road, granny charger overnight...

[ultrarnr]

reini, But the Eva 107 could be fully charged on 110 volts in about 9 hours or so. Overnight charging on 110 was no problem. While the Ribelle has a bigger battery than the Eva 107 it isn't over twice the size. But Energica has also slowed down the speed of CCS charging to. The Eva 107 didn't start to taper until about 70% SOC. The Ribelle will start to taper by 40%. Several times I have plugged in with about 20% SOC and the bike showed about 30 minutes to 80%. But both times it took about 40 minutes to reach 80%.

[wavelet]

At least here in Austria it seems as if much more (also smaller) DC charging stations are being built. Most recently, all dealerships from the VW-group now have at least 25 kW chargers installed which are perfect for our use case (gives around 16-18 kW).
They usually are paid, but can be unlocked with most of my cards/apps. Currently, this means 0.39 EUR/kWh for me.

That's quite interesting; VW Group cars (for Europe) all have 7kW single- or 11kW 3-phase charging (the latter becoming very common in newer models), while most new models have 100kW+ DC charging (except the "stripper" models like the ID.3 Pure, or Škoda iV50, which have 50kW).

Maybe 25kW DC chargers are significantly cheaper than the 50kW or 100kW+ kind to set up or operate (*);
If so, that leaves me hopeful that DC chargers aimed at motorcycles might become a thing (think the famous alpine passes etc.)

(*) and this is a way for the dealership to offer extra-mile customer service:  every car coming in for service leaves with a SoC of 50% at least (kind of like washing the car after a service).

[Sklith]

Compromise not often talked about: would be happy to have 11KW DC charging... if it means we didn't have to lug 11KW of OBC equipment around with the vehicle. Moving the expensive-to-shrink-and-cool ACDC converter into the fuelling station is a win I think, where its size doesn't matter and it can be made large, simple, and robust. I'd much prefer to not have any AC OBC and all public charging to be DC.

I think as EVs begin to dominate the roads, there will definitely be a shift towards eliminating some of the charging losses, and getting rid of onboard AC chargers will be part of this. But we're talking 10+ years from now.

[DonTom]

I think as EVs begin to dominate the roads, there will definitely be a shift towards eliminating some of the charging losses, and getting rid of onboard AC chargers will be part of this. But we're talking 10+ years from now.

So then, how will people charge at home?  That is close to where 90% of EV charging is done.

-Don-  Tonopah, NV (RV)

[Crissa]

So then, how will people charge at home?  That is close to where 90% of EV charging is done.

With a home charger?  Why would you want to carry around a bulky, heavy charger when you can leave it at home when you don't need it?

You leave all but one of your bikes when you leave home.

-Crissa