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[Fran K]

It appears the term lease as in the title here is no longer appropriate.  It is a balloon type loan with a Canadian entity.  Damon says they will pay the baloon and take the bike back.

In US terms, that's a lease.

-Crissa

Is the rider or the Canadian financial institution the title holder?  Is the institution a Lein  holder?

https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0384.htm

[Crissa]

Is the rider or the Canadian financial institution the title holder?  Is the institution a Lein  holder?

https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0384.htm

That seems irrelevant to US terms.

...I also don't see the relevance of your link to anything about whether their subscription is a subscription or a lease, since apparently taxes have to be paid by the holder of the title either way.  Whether they've agreed to pass them on or not is irrelevant to the taxing authority.  Which sorta makes sense.

-Crissa

[HoodRichOG]

It's just financing, with a guarantee that Damon will cover the balloon payment at the end of the term. They have an explanation here on their website: https://help.damon.com/en/articles/4639265-what-are-the-subscription-plans

[HoodRichOG]

I'm definitely a subscription type of buyer. I don't really hold on to a motorcycle for more than a couple of years. Not rushing to put a deposit down on a Damon though. As far as I'm concerned, it's still vaporware.

[NEW2elec]

So when you finance a vehicle, you pay and pay and pay and as long as you pay all you agreed to then you keep the vehicle.

In a lease/subscription you pay for a certain amount of time and then you have options, but one of them is to return the vehicle to the dealer or manufacturer and walk away.

The balloon payment is set up for people who don't want to do right.  If you tear up the bike or don't keep up your payments and think "forget it I'll just walk away" then the balloon payment gets dropped in your lap.

It's almost like collateral in a way.  Do right and everything is good.  Don't do right and there are consequences.

[NEW2elec]

As Damon has posted on their FB page, here are the end of subscription terms in a nut shell.  Copied and pasted:

Our subscription plans allow you to enjoy a HyperSport on your terms. Choose from a 24, 36, or 48-month subscription on any HyperSport!

At the end of your term, you have the option to:
🔸 Pay the remaining balance and keep your bike
🔸 Trade in your motorcycle for a new model
🔸 Renew the subscription
🔸 Return the motorcycle to us

[Fran K]

Is it strange they don't offer an option to return the bike for the latest improvements like they say they intend on doing to the returned ones before being sold as essentially certified used?

Will they even be capible of taking back the volume.  You pay first or enter into the financing agreement and they get paid first, any disputes are between you and the trucker and or the trucker's insurance.   How about on the return will any disputes be between the trucker and whom.

[Richard230]

As Damon has posted on their FB page, here are the end of subscription terms in a nut shell.  Copied and pasted:

Our subscription plans allow you to enjoy a HyperSport on your terms. Choose from a 24, 36, or 48-month subscription on any HyperSport!?
?
At the end of your term, you have the option to:?
🔸 Pay the remaining balance and keep your bike?
🔸 Trade in your motorcycle for a new model?
🔸 Renew the subscription?
🔸 Return the motorcycle to us

I am hardly and expert on the subject, but that sure sounds like a "lease" to me.   

[NEW2elec]

Yes Richard the only thing I can think of off hand is the 4G internet connection cost is included so "subscription".  I'm not 100% sure and there might be some other legal definition for the term I'm not aware of.   As always be sure to read over any agreement before jumping in but again we are over a year out and more details will follow.

Fran K I'm not sure I see what your asking for the first part.  But if in 2,3 or 4 years time they have new models that you like better or fit with your changing interest then you can swap out at a preset value for your first bike.  You can buy the second bike out right or start another subscription.

The plan is to not only have sport bikes and other motorcycle styles but "light mobility vehicles" AKA three wheeled vehicles that sit between a car and a motorcycle.

[Electric Cowboy]

Generally when people use weird terms around money, something is weird. When something is about money, and a company starts talking odd... I stop trusting them.

This is another nail in their coffin for me. Rapidly approaching full-on vaporware for me.

[NEW2elec]

On the Transport Evolved YT channel the TEN 327 video at the 6:51 mark they talk about how Ford is doing the same type of lease for the Mustang Mach E.  As she states this is how it's often done in EU and one of the benefits is you get the tax credit not the leasing company who gives you a little discount and pockets the rest.
Anyone should look any agreement over and make sure they understand what can happen under changing circumstances.
I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the new norm for leasing but we'll see.

You can have your opinion about the company but if you think this is anything like Lightning I think your mistaken.

[princec]

Anyone should look any agreement over and make sure they understand what can happen under changing circumstances.

It has to be said that people are very, very poor at understanding the nature of financial contracts. About 90% of the population are unable to grasp compound interest which explains how finance companies do so well. The currently most nefarious, sneaky, and underhanded poor-value for money concept out there is the so called PCP deal, which is now apparently and incredibly the preferred way to "buy" a vehicle, despite its astoundingly poor value for money and massive hidden pitfalls. YMMV.

Cas

[Crissa]

A vehicle is a tool, as such, it has a cost to not having it.

As long as the balloon payment is below the value of the vehicle, it's no different than differing the down or leaving a balance or having a purchase option on a lease.

It's the balloon payment and how it looms that's the evil, not the contract itself.  These are one of the devices that triggered/dominoed the 2008 recession.

-Crissa

[princec]

That's true, but many people do not realise they they do not own the vehicle. This is mostly OK until it gets stolen, or crashed, or they want to exit the PCP deal early, or they want to modify it.

Also... the maths of PCP is such that it is rather cleverly designed to keep you on a permanent PCP treadmill forever. The unsuspecting pleb is lured by the "low monthly payments" figure above all else initially (and hoodwinked into throwing their old vehicle in as the initial deposit, which you may as well just set fire to). The balloon is a distant worry, until it's not, at which point the only option for many (most) people is to stay on the PCP treadmill and get another new vehicle. There's only one winner, and it's not the punter.

More interestingly for the rest of us though, it creates a huge delayed backlash in the market, with tons of ex-PCP trade-ins flooding the market, further depressing used prices, and further crushing residuals and hence GFVs, ensuring the treadmill stays greased.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Ok, wow.
So all I care about on the thread is the Damon agreement.

The fact that battery and other component technology is jumping up so fast makes owning an EV unappealing to some buyers.  This lets you go 2,3, or 4 years and either walk away or trade it in for the latest and greatest or a different type of bike or vehicle, or buy the bike out right.

The balloon payment is just what it will cost you to either buy the bike out right or, as I've said before, if someone rags the bike out and misuses the battery or whatever goes beyond other limits are put in the agreement then that is the CYA for Damon or Ford.  They aren't going to let someone tear up the vehicle and leave the manufacturer with a worthless torn up EV.  Do right and it's all good and you won't pay any balloon payment.

No one can fix the fact that people like to lie to themselves and pretend they are rich and think they can get anything they want.  No one's fault but theirs.