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[ZeroBrian]

A little blog site to write about the development and race activities for my Lightfighter race bike.  Hope some here find it interesting! 

https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/



For those that missed the adventures of Lightfighter v1 last year, here's a nice recap: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/lightfighter-version-1-lfr19

[NEW2elec]

Thanks very much for the post.  Loved it (V1) when I first came across it and very glad to see you continuing with your efforts for V2.
Always a great idea to add lightness as they say and swap-able batteries should be a game changer for your future endeavors. 

I hope to see some videos posted as well.

Thanks again.

[ZeroBrian]

Thanks very much for the post.  Loved it (V1) when I first came across it and very glad to see you continuing with your efforts for V2.
Always a great idea to add lightness as they say and swap-able batteries should be a game changer for your future endeavors. 

I hope to see some videos posted as well.

Thanks again.

Thanks for checking it out!  Yes - we've had a great photo/video guy with us this season and I'll post some videos to the blog when he's done with the edits.  Unfortunately, there's not a ton of race action as we really only raced the v1 bike at Laguna in February and then v2 in August at Buttonwillow.   

[Frank]

What a fantastic build!  Everything is common sense and logically developed, based on prior experience and a true understanding of what's needed.  Thanks for documenting this Brian.

Dyno question: did you have a chance to figure out how base speed changes as a function of voltage drop as the pack is used up?  I know this can't be changed on-the-fly but I'm curious as to the process you used to figure out it's setpoint.  It sure looks like that was a worthwhile couple of hours!

[ZeroBrian]

What a fantastic build!  Everything is common sense and logically developed, based on prior experience and a true understanding of what's needed.  Thanks for documenting this Brian.

Dyno question: did you have a chance to figure out how base speed changes as a function of voltage drop as the pack is used up?  I know this can't be changed on-the-fly but I'm curious as to the process you used to figure out it's setpoint.  It sure looks like that was a worthwhile couple of hours!

Frank - Thanks for the kind words.  As you know, the things that look like "common sense" in hindsight are often the toughest to come to when you're staring at a blank sheet of paper!

I did not perform a sensitivity analysis to voltage/SOC with the base speed setting, but I did conduct the dyno test slightly down on SOC and I set the base speed lower than I would if I were just trying to post an impressive number.  It's a good idea and I would certainly do this if access to the dyno was a little easier to come by.  With another couple of dyno sessions, I think I could make further gains, especially now that I know the increase in peak torque had no ill effects (current control faults, etc...) on the track.  That said, there are equal gains to be had in optimizing our chassis setup and simply providing the rider with more time in the saddle to get more comfortable with the current performance level.  The Cascadia Motion (formerly Rinehart) inverter is a pretty bad @ss piece of equipment and although it's pricey, you get what you pay for.  I can see the power decrease with voltage over a full club race run, but the difference is almost imperceptible to the rider.   

[ZeroBrian]

I hope to see some videos posted as well.

More to come, but here's a fly-by of the bike at speed at the track...

[NEW2elec]

Sweet.

There is so much potential going forward, just amazing.

Can I ask what your new bike's pack voltage is at?
My screen name notes my layman status but I'm seeing the Porsche and Lucid Air running at over 800 and 900 volts respectively and was wonder if the race bikes are following in that direction.  I know they can't get to that level with the cell space limits of motorcycles but didn't know the current state of the art.

Thanks for the post and thank Troy for helping advance the technology.  Even if he does love doing it anyway.   

[Frank]

There's at least one bike built to higher voltage - Aussie Chris Jones' "Voltron".  https://insideevs.com/news/323190/voltron-evo-when-too-much-is-not-enough-w-video/

The complete build thread is on Endless Sphere.  I don't think he's raced for a couple of years.  You have to pay a lot of attention to voltage ratings at those levels!  I'm not sure it's necessary for track racing but I believe there is an application in land speed.

[ZeroBrian]

Can I ask what your new bike's pack voltage is at?

The technical specifications on the battery (ESS) are here: https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/thebiketech

It's a 365Vdc nominal, 415Vdc top of charge battery pack. 

I don't believe that running at higher voltages is necessary to achieving still higher performance levels on a motorcycle, but that's just my opinion and would welcome the discussion.  I would be concerned with safety mostly due to the creepage/clearance required at that voltage as well as corrosion at the current conductors.  I am familiar with the Voltron build and followed it closely over on endless-sphere.  It was certainly inspirational for Lightfighter, although I would characterize the design approaches as having very different focuses. 

[NEW2elec]

Thanks Frank very interesting.  I had seen the old Kill A Cycle drag race bike but not the Voltron.

Brian, I'm going off the advantages that Lucid spoke of.  They talked about the lower amps allowing smaller gauge wire motor windings and better thermal management that also helped with the high speed charging again limiting the amp heat.

Where do you feel the bottle neck for greater performance is on your bike?
I saw the V1 had some thermal issues and that dang fuse.  The swap-able ESS (I like the term) solves the race day charging challenges so what direction is the next challenge coming from?

[ZeroBrian]

Brian, I'm going off the advantages that Lucid spoke of.  They talked about the lower amps allowing smaller gauge wire motor windings and better thermal management that also helped with the high speed charging again limiting the amp heat.

Where do you feel the bottle neck for greater performance is on your bike?
I saw the V1 had some thermal issues and that dang fuse.  The swap-able ESS (I like the term) solves the race day charging challenges so what direction is the next challenge coming from?

I must admit that I haven't seen the technical explanations from Lucid.  I'm sure there are some really smart people working there, so they probably have good reasons for the voltage they've chosen.  For me, I have an operating voltage limit in the inverter that keeps me below about 410Vdc, so it's a moot point in the short term.  The benefit I could imagine running at higher voltage would be if you could spin the motor faster and extend the base speed.  But then you'd need to gear down again to get to your wheel speeds and rear wheel torque target.  I'm not particularly interested in efficiency for a track bike.  I'm most interested in what yields the fastest lap times. 

Performance means different things to different people.  For me - the target is to be competitive (capable of podium finishes in club racing) at the top of the field of race-prepped Supersport and similar "Formula" category bikes. I think we're getting pretty close to this target. https://www.lightfighter-racing.com/post/the-final-test-of-the-year For those that don't spend a lot of time around a track, it might be a surprise that a properly prepared 600cc Yamaha R6 or ZX6R can spank a showroom 1000+cc Superbike (as can the Lightfighter). 

[MVetter]

Hi Brian. I really enjoyed seeing the bike at AHRMA; Troy was just killing it! I could see how busy you and Troy were so I just hung around in the background, but I did take photos and videos on that day and will host them up for you if you'd like.

Might I ask what happened on turn 11 and Troy came to an unceremonious halt that prompted you to say (paraphrased), "Well, looks like we're done for the weekend"

[ZeroBrian]

Hi Brian. I really enjoyed seeing the bike at AHRMA; Troy was just killing it! I could see how busy you and Troy were so I just hung around in the background, but I did take photos and videos on that day and will host them up for you if you'd like.

Might I ask what happened on turn 11 and Troy came to an unceremonious halt that prompted you to say (paraphrased), "Well, looks like we're done for the weekend"

I'd love to see any photos or videos you got from Laguna.  That was the last race for v1 of the bike and I still plan to do a blog post about it eventually.  As you mention, Troy was killing it and was the fastest bike on track on Saturday, winning the Sound of Thunder 1 overall and the Formula Lightning Extreme classes easily. 



Unfortunately, he had to pull off the track from the lead in Sunday's Sound of Thunder 1 race as he could hear a strange noise coming from the motor/gearbox.  He made the right call to take care of the bike and when we got it back we found that the drive sprocket on the gearbox output shaft was worn to nubs where the teeth were supposed to be, as you can see in this photo.  The sound Troy heard was the sprocket slipping instead of driving the chain. 



After running all last season on one of these, we decided it wise to replace it prior to this race.  Obviously, we did not receive a part with the same material properties as the one we had been using.  We have since moved away from running this style of sintered metal sprocket in favor of a more traditional hardened steel motorcycle countershaft sprocket.  Lesson learned!   

Outside of this mechanical failure, the bike ran great and I'm really happy we were able to get this race in prior to all the covid restrictions generally wrecking the racing season!  I'm also glad that some on this forum got to see the bike run in person! 

[Frank]

Sorry you had the sprocket failure, for sure hardened teeth are a must.  There's several sources for them as I'm sure you know.  I also like using Sprocket Specialists rear sprockets with their hardened coating.  I have hundreds of high-power drag passes on them with virtually no wear.

BTW, is that a 420 or are you using 530?

[ZeroBrian]

BTW, is that a 420 or are you using 530?

Yup.  Version 2 is running a hardened motorcycle countershaft sprocket.  We thought we could get away with one more event on v1 before making this change, but we were wrong.  We run a 520 chain.