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[NEW2elec]

For snowmobiles I'm wondering if they will have some active battery warming installed.  Some protective insulation for when you get going but overnight charging outside could get sketchy.  Li ion still doesn't like the cold.

[enaef]

The eqooder, a Swiss product

https://www.qooder.com/en/eqooder

comes with Zero Z-Force® 75.7R and Z-Force® Li-Ion 7.2 kWH

[wavelet]

Well, sounds good for Zero. Their motors have been really popular, so much so that spare parts for a Zero stay annoyingly expensive ;

Harley-Davidson grabbed Alta, Can-Am got Brammo, and Damon has Mission. All good motors, but none a functioning company. Polaris was falling behind.

-Crissa

Lots of good potential here, both for cleaner & quieter powercraft, as well as added revenue for Zero.
I just hope Polaris, being the 800-pound gorilla in the relationship (their revenue is $5B/year), don't end up distracting Zero from the main business of motorcycles.

[Crissa]

... don't end up distracting Zero from the main business of motorcycles.

Yeah, though partnerships like this is what catapulted Rivian from just another hopeful small company into the rather sure contender they are today.  Even Tesla sold drivetrains (and still does?) to raise cash and make tooling up factories pay for itself.

-Crissa

[wavelet]

... don't end up distracting Zero from the main business of motorcycles.

Yeah, though partnerships like this is what catapulted Rivian from just another hopeful small company into the rather sure contender they are today.  Even Tesla sold drivetrains (and still does?) to raise cash and make tooling up factories pay for itself.

-Crissa

Sure, it's a natural & reasonable path to take (IIRC, Tesla's deal with Daimler & Toyota was also tied to their investing in Tesla); Rimac also does this, and Energica announced a similar deal with Italian automotive supplier Dell'Orto a year ago, focused on small electric two-wheelers.
I just  hope Polaris behaves. It didn't w.r.t. the Brammo acquisition.

[Richard230]

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that this news spurred Polaris to enter into their arrangement with Zero:
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/dirt/california-gasoline-dirt-bikes-ban-2035/

[TheRan]

I don't understand how they could possibly do that, surely they have no say when it comes to non road legal vehicles? There are no regulations for them, if it's on private land and you have permission you can ride or drive absolutely anything you like.

[Curt]

Zero needs to hold the line and not make any compromises in this "partnership". If they start ceding power or get bought then they're done for. It's up to Mr. Paschel and the board to be strong. They have made a 10 year commitment dealing with the devil. With such temptations, it's going to be really hard not to fold whenever times get difficult. Imagine if Microsoft had sold out to IBM in the early days.

[TheRan]

I can't see that happening, all Zero is doing is supplying them with components. It wouldn't surprise me if the resulting products are branded Polaris with just a "powered by Zero" or similar decal on them. Zero probably won't have much involvement beyond where to stick the components and what specific ones to choose for the application.

[Curt]

Ten years is a very, very long time! Predictably, it goes something like this:

- Polaris becomes dependent on Zero parts and worries about it.
- Zero has financial difficulties. Polaris offers money.
- Zero accepts unfavorable terms.
- Zero dies.

It needs to go like this:

- Polaris becomes dependent on Zero parts and worries about it.
- Zero has financial difficulties. Polaris offers money.
- Zero says we'd rather die.
- Zero comes close to dying.
- Ten years later, Zero buys Polaris.

[TheRan]

How likely is something like that though? The most likely part is Polaris becoming reliant on Zero but the ban on ICE vehicles (if it will even apply to off road vehicles) is 15 years away, and this is assuming there's some sort of exclusivity deal and Polaris can't just go to a different manufacturer. As for Zero, surely they're only going to get stronger as more people embrace electric vehicles especially road legal ones.

[wavelet]

I don't understand how they could possibly do that, surely they have no say when it comes to non road legal vehicles? There are no regulations for them, if it's on private land and you have permission you can ride or drive absolutely anything you like.

I'm pretty sure that in California most of the offroad places people ride aren't private land, they're public, municipally-, state- or Federally-owned .

Over here, BTW, all traffic laws apply to private land as well (bikes must be registered & insured, riding licenses required etc.)

[TheRan]

I don't understand how they could possibly do that, surely they have no say when it comes to non road legal vehicles? There are no regulations for them, if it's on private land and you have permission you can ride or drive absolutely anything you like.

I'm pretty sure that in California most of the offroad places people ride aren't private land, they're public, municipally-, state- or Federally-owned .

Over here, BTW, all traffic laws apply to private land as well (bikes must be registered & insured, riding licenses required etc.)

Is that the thing where you have to get the sticker to go on your bike, think it's green or orange? I've seen a couple cop stop videos where people have had to show them when riding off road. Even then I don't see how they could regulate a vehicle that might only ever be ridden on your own land. Sure people may ride them on state owned land but not everyone will, so what they need to do instead is only hand out those stickers to electric bike owners.

Regarding the traffic laws, is that only if it's someone else's land? Surely they can't do anything if its your own land. What about motocross tracks, does every single rider really have their race bikes registered and insured? Are there any other requirements for them such as emissions or safety testing?

Other than being able to lane split Cali is starting to sound like a pretty bad place to live when it comes to motor vehicles.

[Crissa]

I don't understand how they could possibly do that, surely they have no say...

The state has a rather large say about what is sold in the state, tho.  Not to mention what is emitted into the air, ridden on public lands.

It's only 'new' that Newsom was looking to prohibit in 2035, tho.  Pretty pablum.  Used vehicles wouldn't be touched.  And trucks have until 2040.

-Crissa

[wavelet]

I don't understand how they could possibly do that, surely they have no say when it comes to non road legal vehicles? There are no regulations for them, if it's on private land and you have permission you can ride or drive absolutely anything you like.

I'm pretty sure that in California most of the offroad places people ride aren't private land, they're public, municipally-, state- or Federally-owned .

Over here, BTW, all traffic laws apply to private land as well (bikes must be registered & insured, riding licenses required etc.)

Is that the thing where you have to get the sticker to go on your bike, think it's green or orange? I've seen a couple cop stop videos where people have had to show them when riding off road. Even then I don't see how they could regulate a vehicle that might only ever be ridden on your own land. Sure people may ride them on state owned land but not everyone will, so what they need to do instead is only hand out those stickers to electric bike owners.

Regarding the traffic laws, is that only if it's someone else's land? Surely they can't do anything if its your own land. What about motocross tracks, does every single rider really have their race bikes registered and insured? Are there any other requirements for them such as emissions or safety testing?

Other than being able to lane split Cali is starting to sound like a pretty bad place to live when it comes to motor vehicles.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not in California, I'm in Israel 

Over here all the laws that apply on public lands apply on private land, no matter whose, no exceptions whatsoever (to people to whom that sounds weird, does it seem weird that it also applies to non-traffic laws forbidding, say suicide or drug use? AFAIK, in most if not all jurisdictions they also apply on private property just as much as they do on public land).
Re motorcross here, or any form of racing, that requires separate specialty licensure, insurance & safety testing (I think there's a waiver for emissions), and anyone caught doing any kind of racing without them will have the bike confiscated and hefty fines at least.