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[DonTom]

I thin Harley made a conscious choice for the future.  AC chargers are big and bulky.

We're just not in that future yet.

-Crissa

Yeah, but  Zero somehow managed to squeeze in (up to) 12 KW worth of chargers in the  SR/F & SR/S. So we're there.

Like Energica says "Electric is the future and the future is now".  But Energica didn't listen to their own words,  only Zero did, when it comes to AC charging. But it's difficult to complain much when only Energica (& Harley) has CCS.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[JaimeC]

From what I understand, you can get 12kW of AC charging from a Tesla destination charger, but you'll have to buy a Tesla tap adapter in order to use one...  Most I've seen from a regular J1772 is 7kW.

[Crissa]

Yeah, but  Zero somehow managed to squeeze in (up to) 12 KW worth of chargers in the  SR/F & SR/S. So we're there.

...And the Zero has a big fat charger in that tank, while the Livewire is relatively svelte.  And they have CCS instead and more performance.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

From what I understand, you can get 12kW of AC charging from a Tesla destination charger, but you'll have to buy a Tesla tap adapter in order to use one...  Most I've seen from a regular J1772 is 7kW.

Not all Tesla Destination "Chargers" (they are not really chargers at all) are the same. Not all of them can do the 12 KW but some can do 16 KW, 14 KW, or 10 KW. They vary all over, if you check Plugshare. Mine at my houses can do 12 KW.

I own several Tesla-Taps, but the most I ever need for AC charging will be around 8.3 KW, but on the road, usually 6.3 KW. I will soon be able to charge my SR at around 8 kW on the road, perhaps at the very max most J stations can do.  I am buying a couple of new Elcon 3.3 KW chargers from Elcon and the two 2.5 KW chargers I have been using will be used for my DS (getting close  to 1C charging with it). The 3.3 KW chargers are a little smaller in size than the older 2.5 KW external  chargers I have been using. These will be programmed to go up to 114 volts and then stop. So at about 95% SOC, the last 5%   SOC (or ~2VDC)will be the OBC only, if I want to wait for it. That just  gives me a little extra time to put the external chargers back in my side cases as I am still charging with the OBC as I get things ready to take off.

I already have both of my Zeros  wired up for external chargers. To smaller Anderson connectors that are wired directly to the battery terminals on the motor controller.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

.And the Zero has a big fat charger in that tank, while the Livewire is relatively svelte.  And they have CCS instead and more performance.-Crissa

I hear they have four 3 KW chargers in the Zero SR/F & SR/S with the power tank to get the 12 KW. Two in the tank and two under the seat.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

.And the Zero has a big fat charger in that tank, while the Livewire is relatively svelte.  And they have CCS instead and more performance.-Crissa

I hear they have four 3 KW chargers in the Zero SR/F & SR/S with the power tank to get the 12 KW. Two in the tank and two under the seat.

-Don-  Reno, NV

It's two 3kW units under the tank area above the battery, just in front of the seat, but I think the charge tank option may be a single 6kW unit (possibly mostly identical to the one for the S/DS) from the images I've seen. I think this is the reason why the power input is also wired sort of funky, one phase going to each of the 3kW units and then the third going to the 6kW one or something like that.

[DonTom]

It's two 3kW units under the tank area above the battery, just in front of the seat, but I think the charge tank option may be a single 6kW unit (possibly mostly identical to the one for the S/DS) from the images I've seen. I think this is the reason why the power input is also wired sort of funky, one phase going to each of the 3kW units and then the third going to the 6kW one or something like that.

OIC, I was just going by what I thought I heard here before. Perhaps I remembered incorrectly.

I really have no idea as I don't own or ever even looked at the guts of a SR/F or SR/S.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[loggamatt]

Looking at Zap-Map for the UK (fairly unscientifically, just scrolling around the map for different areas of the country), it looks like there are a fair number of Type 2 chargers that could charge up to 12kW here. But it also seems that they are usually either older units, or expensive units, or both.

CCS is better catered for. As is 7kW Type 2.

7kW Type 2 can also often be found at a far cheaper rate than CCS, so that is one other thing to factor in here. I could charge an Energica in 20-30mins on CCS, or I could charge a Zero in 2 hours (on a 7kW charger) but save enough money on the charge cost to pay for the coffee I drink while waiting 2 hours!

I need to give it some thought really, and test ride one of them when I get a chance. I’d be using it as an all-year commuter as well as for touring, so the belt drive on the Zero REALLY appeals to me!

Maybe I would just have to re-evaluate my approach to motorcycle touring. Right now, I have a big, comfortable touring bike and can happily do 500 miles or more in a day. That said, those big mileage days tend to be at the start or end of a trip, getting to or back from the area I want to visit/ride in. Once I’m in the area I want to visit, it’s more like 200 mile days with plenty of stops to see things anyway. So maybe if I went the Zero route, I’d have to take an extra day or so at the start and end of my trips for the journey to and from the destination area.

Let’s say, for the sake of argument, you could do a 200 mile day on a Zero, but a 300 mile day on an Energica (due to faster charging). The other thing to factor in is whether I would actually want to do a 300 mile day on that style of bike anyway? Currently I would do 300 miles easily, but my bike has a neutral, upright position and a wide, comfy seat. I have a bad back, and I reckon I’d be feeling ready to rest after 200 miles on a leaned-forward sports-tourer anyway.

So, a lot to weigh up! But I am maybe leaning back towards the Zero on paper at least the more I consider the difference in the real world between these bikes.

[princec]

The Zero's belt drive is fairly unreliable too, and apt to leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere without warning.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

Almost 38k miles on my belt.  It needs to be set up correctly including proper torque on the axial nut to keep it from getting too tight but it can work for long distances.  Salt isn't good for anything though I'm afraid.

The old secret charging source for charging in the old days (5-6 years ago) was RV parks and their 14-50 outlets.  Now some won't let you charge or bill you more than it's worth but it was an extra source of power in a tight spot.  You had to have the plug adapter of course which eats up cargo space, but it was an option.

[JaimeC]

From what I understand, you can get 12kW of AC charging from a Tesla destination charger, but you'll have to buy a Tesla tap adapter in order to use one...  Most I've seen from a regular J1772 is 7kW.

Not all Tesla Destination "Chargers" (they are not really chargers at all) are the same. Not all of them can do the 12 KW but some can do 16 KW, 14 KW, or 10 KW. They vary all over, if you check Plugshare. Mine at my houses can do 12 KW.

Doesn't really matter if the Tesla destination charger can put out more than 12kWh.  The Zero is only going to draw a maximum of 12kWh if its available.  My point was that right now in the US, that is really the only place you can get that much charging power for an SR/F or SR/S (provided it is equipped for it).  There are some L2 stations by me that (according to PlugShare) put out 7kWh but my S with its Charge Tank is only going to use 6kWh (or is it 6.6?  I see conflicting information online).

[DonTom]

Doesn't really matter if the Tesla destination charger can put out more than 12kWh.

I realize that  it makes no difference to have a source capable of more amps or watts than  what is needed as long as the voltage is in the correct range.
 

My point was that right now in the US, that is really the only place you can get that much charging power for an SR/F or SR/S (provided it is equipped for it).  There are some L2 stations by me that (according to PlugShare) put out 7kWh but my S with its Charge Tank is only going to use 6kWh (or is it 6.6?  I see conflicting information online).

Not always true. Go direct to a 240 VAC 14-50  outlet and you usually have 240 VAC @ 50 amps (the typical most common breaker used) and you have your full 12000 watts. The problem there is that most granny cables cannot handle 12 KW. I am not sure if any available can.  But I use external chargers that can plug in direct. I just don't have the 12 KW worth of chargers.

I often charge here, for an example.

So I do wonder why there is only 7 KW available from J1772 stations. Anybody know why they usually cannot handle the full 12 KW?  What is so different in a Tesla Wall Connector where 12 KW is the norm? And since almost every 14-50 is wired for 50 amps (and a lot more is possible), what is the issue that prevents most J1772 stations from doing 12KW? 

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Probably site wiring, Don.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Probably site wiring, Don.

-Crissa

It's not uncommon to see a 14 KW Telsa Destination charge station  right next to a 7 KW J1772 station a few feet away from each other. Same site.

Here is an example of such.

But I just found my answer here. The issue is the J1772 plug itself. Only approved for 6.6 KW.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Well, then that's probably because the owner of the site is not an EV person.  They don't look like they were installed by the same people, either, the paint is different?

-Crissa