Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Shadow]

The FX/S/DS ZF7.2 should be plenty enough range for most urban riders keeping to speeds 25-52mph. I rode a loaner FX ZF6.5 for some weeks on pavement and off-road. As I am some 26 miles from town there were a few freezing cold (less energetic battery output) days when I had to push the FX ZF6.5 a mile or two and ask for help with a charge. The ZF7.2 should have been enough for me then. Also likely for the same weight eventually we would see on a new model year an even more energy dense ZForce battery (Perhaps 8kWh? about 8% improvement every 3 years? at a guess). The stock recharging on any FX/FXS up to model year 2020 (at least) is slow 6mph rate, you will absolutely want to figure out some kind of hot rod off-board charger once the novelty of 50 mile range wears off and you want to do 100mi+ days. With an additional 25lbs weight off-board charger you can max out the charging rate to 60mph+ which effectively doubles your range if you stop for lunch while charging. The same hot rod off-board charging should work for S/DS platform model year 2014+.

FX/FXS does easily wheelie and get up to highway speeds. It is a relatively lightweight and much more substantial motorbike compared to the next cheapest option (Sur Ron customized moped from eBike parts like Sur Ron X Black Edition).

[DonTom]

The FX/S/DS ZF7.2 should be plenty enough range for most urban riders keeping to speeds 25-52mph.

My ZF 6.5 battery was replaced with a 7.2 KWH under warranty a few months ago. What a nice difference in range.

Today, I took a ride UP to Virginia City on my DS and it took less than  50% of my SOC. I recharged at the CourtHouse in VC (@3.3 KW with two Delata-Qs). I came back via Carson City  and still had 30% SOC left when I got home. And that includes a few short side trips. While I could have recharged many other places on the way back, I had no need. And it was 50% freeway on the way back (as fast as 75 MPH).

These days, I can take my DS 7.2KWH  just about anywhere I can take my SR 16.3 KWH. Yeah, the 16.3 has a lot more range, but it's the same charging times either way at the same charge rate,  as long as there are enough J-1772 stations and these days there are plenty.  I wouldn't hesitate to take my Zero DS 7.2 to Auburn as the longest run with no J-1772 station  is Reno to Truckee and it can easily make that.

I decided I am going to wire up my DS for a couple of Elcons also, and start charging it at 6  KWs. I will soon buy a couple of more Elcons so I can keep two at each house.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.

The S is more a newbie bike, tho.  The balance is well-behaved.

-Crissa

[Mr T]

Do any of you think it would be worth it to wait for a newer model to come along? I was reading about the 2016 change to the motors, that is, the IPM. Is it that much of an improvement over the older tech?

[DonTom]

Do any of you think it would be worth it to wait for a newer model to come along? I was reading about the 2016 change to the motors, that is, the IPM. Is it that much of an improvement over the older tech?

Some will say it's the opposite. The new motors are probably more efficient, but require alignment with the controller and such (AKA Commissioning). More critical and not anything we can do ourselves. Also, the older motors make it a lot easier to add in a reverse.

Just because it's newer doesn't necessary mean it's an improvement.

I have heard many sayings about such. Like "The designs of the future are often the very first to become designs of the past". Here is one  example of such.

And they even made a few motorcycles with it.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

There's also always a new model coming along.  So that wait is practically infinite.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

There's also always a new model coming along.  So that wait is practically infinite.

-Crissa

Depends on what you want. I can remember many "improvements"  in the past that I considered to be the opposite. For an example, in 1973, they thought the fuel tank was too large on the  1971 BMW. Some could feel the gas in the tank during fast sharp  turns. So they made it almost two gallons smaller in 1973.  Back in 1971, I was tired of running out of gas on my 68 Honda CL350, so I was looking for the largest gas tank there was on a motorcycle. They advertised it as 6.3 gallons on my 1971,  but it was really only 5.8 Gallons. Still the largest in 1971. Back in those days, they lied about all specs--even lied in writing about the warranties. Motorcycle warranties didn't work back then. Times have changed a lot since those days.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[princec]

As I understand it the new IPM motor wastes a lot less energy in heat, which isn't so much about getting more range as preventing it from going into thermal limp mode if you give it beans.

Cas

[Mr T]

The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.

The S is more a newbie bike, tho.  The balance is well-behaved.

-Crissa

 Well I am a newbie when it comes to Zeros for sure. But after over 40 motorcycles, I am so intrigued with these bikes. The short test ride I took blew me away with the smoothness and application of power. At least enough power for me, I'm slowing down a little, but sure don't want to stop riding. I still enjoy wrenching, and will continue to do so to stay busy and supplement my income.  But I really am looking forward to learning something new. My father used to say, " if you are not learning, you are not living". Of course riding too. Lots of riding!

[NEW2elec]

I ride my 13 at about 45-50 MPH on back roads to enjoy the ride.  Even in GA summers I have never hit the thermal limit warning on the bike.
If I was riding 30-40 miles on the interstate at 80 MPH then I'm sure I would hit it.  People report that the power goes down a good bit until the motor cools off.  This of course isn't ideal on the interstate or any other fast traffic situation hence going with the IPM motor later on.

The IPM motor really just pulls the magnets back away from the windings held in by a "cage" setup.  So like having your hand away from a fire instead of right over it.

[Richard230]

The FX does feel taller... but it is skinnier and lighter which makes up for it.

The S is more a newbie bike, tho.  The balance is well-behaved.

-Crissa

 Well I am a newbie when it comes to Zeros for sure. But after over 40 motorcycles, I am so intrigued with these bikes. The short test ride I took blew me away with the smoothness and application of power. At least enough power for me, I'm slowing down a little, but sure don't want to stop riding. I still enjoy wrenching, and will continue to do so to stay busy and supplement my income.  But I really am looking forward to learning something new. My father used to say, " if you are not learning, you are not living". Of course riding too. Lots of riding!

If you like wrenching on motorcycles, buy a used Royal Enfield Bullet. Wrench on that and then go riding on your Zero.   

[Mr T]

If you like wrenching on motorcycles, buy a used Royal Enfield Bullet. Wrench on that and then go riding on your Zero.   
[/quote]
 I should have been more clear in my statement. I like wrenching on motorcycles - other people's motorcycles. I work my own usually to only get them going, ride awhile and sell off. I wrench to raise coin, so I can ride. I don't touch the family budget. As far as the Enfields go, I have worked on them. They have improved the quality in last few years and are a charming reminder of the past, but I prefer to live in the present.  Enfields are really too slow for today's road and crazy drivers. I live just outside of Charlotte, NC in Nascar territory where every other person thinks they are driving for the checker flag.  The Bullets are fine for back country roads ( my favorite kind of riding), but breaking down in the middle of nowhere is not fun. So no thank you, I won't be buying one.

[Mr T]

I just wanted to thank everyone that replied. I am walking away from this 2014 S deal as I can't seem to get enough answers on the history of the bike. Since the on board chargers seem to the weak point, it would be nice to know if it had been replaced in the last 21K miles.  I also realized that I am more interested in a FXS model as the range would be fine with me and would probably like the ergonomics better. If anyone is interested, I'll talk to the guy and see if he is agreeable.

[Crissa]

The charger is an electronic device.  It could last forever, or maybe not.

It sounds like some bikes just chew through them and others just never do.

-Crissa

[Shadow]

I just wanted to thank everyone that replied. I am walking away from this 2014 S deal as I can't seem to get enough answers on the history of the bike. Since the on board chargers seem to the weak point, it would be nice to know if it had been replaced in the last 21K miles.  I also realized that I am more interested in a FXS model as the range would be fine with me and would probably like the ergonomics better. If anyone is interested, I'll talk to the guy and see if he is agreeable.

Having a charger that was not replaced or is malfunctioning should not be a deal-breaker. Think further about how you would attempt a repair if the Main Bike Board goes bad? That could be a disaster on an old and new bike alike. In fact, before AF1Racing opened up their catalog of Zero Motorcycles parts to online ordering there was kind of a grey market for finding dealers who would order parts for customers (or not!) - some dealers who were willing couldn't figure it out and there were warehouse problems for logistics that Zero Motorcycles used in past years repeatedly returning to haunt new parts orders. If you could even get a brand new proprietary part like the Main Bike Board specific to your make and model year it then needs to be programmed and the tools to do so are not for sale. There is no mail order service for getting proprietary Zero Motorcycles parts serviced.

The value proposition here needs to be compared with something that is maintainable.

If you break something on a $4000 Sur Ron X there's a dozen online retailers where you can swap parts; there are no mysterious proprietary parts that will stop you from spending time and money to repair it. Anything specialized needing programming tools for cobbled-together import products out of China like the Sur Ron can be mailed away to get programmed and return-mailed. The same is not true for Zero Motorcycles vehicles, the manufacturer actively prevents owners from obtaining the proprietary repair tools for maintaining and repairing their bikes, and the support through an authorized network of dealers has been rocky at best for most owners I know personally. If your dealer is outstanding and does well you may never have a problem in the first place and wouldn't notice any troubles for 10 years of ownership, but the horror stories begin about dealer service and repair on Zero Motorcycles vehicles and never really end as there are some number of unsatisfactory results even when the manufacturer intervened (which they have done to positive effect a whole lot more then they ought need to) to try to make it right for the owner.

However for something like the Sur Ron X you'd be daft with a deathwish to try and ride that more than a mile or two on interstate highway. The Zero FX is the next level up and is about the minimum you'd want to dabble with over 45mph speeds. For that you have to make some concessions about price and some parts being proprietary and not user replaceable.

So maybe it was good to walk away from a 2014 Zero S? However it could also be the kind of bike if ridden hard that there are well-known problems. It's better for Zero Motorcycles owners to have a bike with well-known problems (anything besides proprietary programmed parts like Main Bike Board, Sevcon motor controller, the motor itself) than a new one on warranty service with mysterious problems and a dealer network that isn't quite taking care of business (or no dealer in your area at all). It would be like having had a test pilot for all those years working for you to find the problems, and then giving you the test bike when you cut their paycheck 

Since you're interested in an FX style bike though just have a look for a FX 7.2 and see if that's in your budget. If the charger is bad just remove it and DIY your own better replacement (same could be of course said for the 2014 Zero S but factor that into the price any DIY charging upgrade worth doing is $1000+). It could have been dropped and flipped and so on but if it accelerates without a hiccup it's probably good to go. Get some seat time, and when the 2021 model year is announced see if they have managed to make an improvement to the ZForce battery. The 2013 Zero was offered with a ZForce 8.5 as a larger physical battery similar to what we see on ZF14.0 bikes now. If they can squeeze out an improvement on the ZF7.2 for 2021 at half the mass and half the physical size of the 2013 ZF8.5 it will be a wonderful milestone. An FX ZF8 would be amazing, but the FX ZF7.2 is a fine bike and nothing else really can touch its value proposition as a machine capable of highway speeds.

Say you're not ever needing to go on highway, then it's maybe more sensible to grab a Sur Ron X? It's not a motorcycle but it's also way less dependent on finding a manufacturer authorized dealership that doesn't suck.

The 2014 Zero S might still be interesting at $5k I think it's not a bad value. You need to do some research about a local authorized dealer though, even though Hollywood Electrics maintained the bike and they are in fact excellent it really doesn't matter because they are not the local dealer where you would go to get the bike proprietary stuff serviced.