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[Crissa]

I am still mystified why my two granddaughters have no interesting driving a car, much less riding a motorcycle, even though my daughter and her husband own and ride 6 motorcycles, one of which is my old 2014 Zero S.   

That deserves its own thread.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

I guess you missed my post or didn't want to accept it.  You can get a cord that lets you charge from a level 2 socket now.
The fact it's only pulling 650Ws don't matter if it's sitting there all night.

So can you make it work now with no house or garage?  Yes
Would it be nice to be able to charge it faster?  Yes
At a cost of $3500?  Not for me and certainly not for poorer people.

Still is it likely that Zero will be coming out with a bike like your saying you want next year?  I am guessing yes.

Really if you can't get "there" and back on a single 100% battery charge on a FXS you should get a bigger bike.

[Crissa]

I think an FX with a 3 or 6 kw charger would be awesome.  It would fit all the uses I can't do with my S now.

But right now, that wouldn't be cheap, or as light as an FX, until they manage to make something that doesn't exist yet.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

The DeathFX and its 10kW of on board charging begs to differ

[fcvarela]

Diginow, for example? Single 3.3kw chargers about the same size as the 650w one on the FXS.

You do know Diginow is:

• Out of business
• Thousands of dollars
• Larger than the on board charger for the S-platform bikes (which is almost twice the size of the X-platform charger)
• Not more reliable

Also, you didn't link to them.

-Crissa

I don't think they're out of business, they just stopped selling those chargers as Zero made it very hard for third parties to reliably charge bikes. They don't cost more than the QuiQ external chargers that Zero sell added p to the same power. And there's literally videos of people on the internet replacing the S onboard charger with 3 diginow ones. They're not bigger. Literally 3 of them take up less space than the built-in one. Each of those 3 is 3.3kw.

[fcvarela]

I guess you missed my post or didn't want to accept it.  You can get a cord that lets you charge from a level 2 socket now.
The fact it's only pulling 650Ws don't matter if it's sitting there all night.

So can you make it work now with no house or garage?  Yes
Would it be nice to be able to charge it faster?  Yes
At a cost of $3500?  Not for me and certainly not for poorer people.

Still is it likely that Zero will be coming out with a bike like your saying you want next year?  I am guessing yes.

Really if you can't get "there" and back on a single 100% battery charge on a FXS you should get a bigger bike.

I think you missed where I said charging overnight isn't an option as there's time limits for public charging stations. It's happily pay that price for the option, in fact I did to get a charge tank on the S. I don't get why people here are so hostile to the fact that my use case is different. This is a different market. I'm not asking you to tell me how to make it work. It doesn't work. I'm asking why you think Zero hasn't updated the bikes to make them attractive here.

Instead, all I'm getting is people telling me I dont' need what I need because I should be ok with the US use-case. This is really weird. Anyway, abandoning this thread. Doesn't seem like there's an interest in a constructive discussion about how these bikes could own a lot more market share.

[TheRan]

I don't think they're out of business, they just stopped selling those chargers as Zero made it very hard for third parties to reliably charge bikes. They don't cost more than the QuiQ external chargers that Zero sell added p to the same power. And there's literally videos of people on the internet replacing the S onboard charger with 3 diginow ones. They're not bigger. Literally 3 of them take up less space than the built-in one. Each of those 3 is 3.3kw.

Diginow stopped selling them because they couldn't get them to work reliably, but it was through no fault of Zero. That they cost as much as a bunch of Deltas is irrelevant because you don't get a bunch of Deltas for free with your bike, it's an additional cost. And no they're not the same size, that's why Diginow also made an extended bellypan to fit them.

I don't get why people here are so hostile to the fact that my use case is different. This is a different market. I'm not asking you to tell me how to make it work. It doesn't work. I'm asking why you think Zero hasn't updated the bikes to make them attractive here.

Instead, all I'm getting is people telling me I dont' need what I need because I should be ok with the US use-case. This is really weird. Anyway, abandoning this thread. Doesn't seem like there's an interest in a constructive discussion about how these bikes could own a lot more market share.

No bike is perfect for everyone. Why should Zero increase the price and weight of their entire range of bikes just to cater to a minority? Instead, anyone in that minority can simply get a bike with a Charge Tank. You're not asking for a solution to a problem, you're asking for a specific product (a faster charging FX/S). It's as relevant as me asking why they don't make a 110hp SR? Because the SR/F exists. You want a faster SR? Buy an SR/F. You want a faster charging Zero? Buy one with a charge tank.

[fcvarela]

No bike is perfect for everyone. Why should Zero increase the price and weight of their entire range of bikes just to cater to a minority? Instead, anyone in that minority can simply get a bike with a Charge Tank. You're not asking for a solution to a problem, you're asking for a specific product (a faster charging FX/S). It's as relevant as me asking why they don't make a 110hp SR? Because the SR/F exists. You want a faster SR? Buy an SR/F. You want a faster charging Zero? Buy one with a charge tank.

I never argued for what you're saying I did.

[NoMoreIdeas]

Diginow stopped selling them because they couldn't get them to work reliably, but it was through no fault of Zero. That they cost as much as a bunch of Deltas is irrelevant because you don't get a bunch of Deltas for free with your bike, it's an additional cost. And no they're not the same size, that's why Diginow also made an extended bellypan to fit them.

I think they stopped for a variety of reasons, but the reliability reasons were stated to be isolation issues with some Zeros, but not all of them. Diginow is not selling them and is only minorly supporting them, however they are working on other projects (currently a product that basically uses your EV as a power wall). It is speculated that its the same isolation problem that is killing onboard chargers. FWIW a 3.3kw TC unit costs less than a 1kw deltaQ unit, however the 3.3kwTC units are not UL certified (I imagine that has some cost and demands a premium). The TC units are taller than the factory onboard charger which necessitated the bellypan.

[Crissa]

The DeathFX and its 10kW of on board charging begs to differ

That is so not in the same form factor!  It Zero marketed that you'd excoriate them for wires exposed and the weird bump-out reducing offroad suspension travel ^-^

-Crissa

[AutoE]

Not able to support the markets they're in. Customer repair times are often measured in months, sometime years. Customer was in our shop today asking for our help with a Zero SR they bought in April or May 2019 that was out-of-commission since late May 2019. Got to back and while on the way to annual test the bike shut down again and wont restart.  From what I understand its either bad software or controller... again.  We gave him the number of the lawyer handling the class action, but I think he's going to suit in the UK.

[Curt]

"Why is Zero ignoring the rest of the world"
The thread title should be "Why doesn't Zero redesign the FXS to charge faster?" Otherwise, you ignore that the international market is a big chunk of their business, and that only one feature of one model is bothering you.

"Zero is making a mistake"
Every option available to Zero is a mistake to some part of the market. The lowest end bike is supposed to have less features. It's safe to assume they leveraged all of their design and marketing capabilities to find a market niche where money can be made. The FXS still hits attractive performance and use cases while being somewhat affordable.

I wish my FX charged fast too, so I could take it to Santa Cruz or San Francisco and back without anxiety, plug searching, hours of plug time, $2500 worth of quick charging equipment in my top case, etc. But I realize that having a high wattage charger on board, which practically necessitates a J1772 receptacle also, might increase the price to a point where sales would drop dramatically. Pretty much everyone I talk to already cites price as the reason for not owning an FX. Personally I like the form factor of the FX enough that I accept its limitations instead of getting something else.

[TheRan]

No bike is perfect for everyone. Why should Zero increase the price and weight of their entire range of bikes just to cater to a minority? Instead, anyone in that minority can simply get a bike with a Charge Tank. You're not asking for a solution to a problem, you're asking for a specific product (a faster charging FX/S). It's as relevant as me asking why they don't make a 110hp SR? Because the SR/F exists. You want a faster SR? Buy an SR/F. You want a faster charging Zero? Buy one with a charge tank.

I never argued for what you're saying I did.

So what are you arguing for, what is it you want? Your original point was about people not buying an FXS because it didn't charge fast enough, because they'd have to charge away from home. You wanted it to have 6kW charging. You completely ignored that you can get 6kW charging on an S or DS, with a 7.2kWh model that will have you fully charged in about an hour at most (because you're not going to arrive at the charging station at 0%). You want that in an FXS? Too bad, that model is designed to be light and cheap.

[Richard230]

I think Zero is doing their best to give their customers what they think they want at a price that they think they can afford. I also suspect that they are focused more on selling motorcycles to customers who do not already own a Zero so as to expand their market base. While faster charging is certainly something useful, most people new to the EV scene are likely to be more comfortable with plugging into 120V L1 outlets, at least in the U.S. of course.

I also wonder how long it takes Zero to develop an entirely new model? Perhaps several years? That could explain why their bikes seem to be geared more to the U.S. market right now. But with their sales during the past couple of years being really strong in the EU, perhaps we will see new models in the future more focused on what that market demands.

[Auriga]

I think they said it took 3-5 years to design the SR/F and SR/S bikes. And I'd say they considered the EU market by setting up the Mennekes three phase charge solution. While it's not perfect for the UK, the mainland seems to be enjoying it.

Beyond charging, I don't think what the EU wants is all that different than what the US wants. Faster, cheaper, lighter, more reliable, faster charging, and longer range. All at the same time.

Some people would like the FX to charge faster, and that could be done, but right know that's a tradeoff with weight, price, and size being negatively affected.

Look how far electric motorcycles have come since 2013 when they launched the FX. Can you imagine what we'll have in another eight years?