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[fcvarela]

Zero's strategy seems to be making bikes for the US market only where people have garages and are able to charge overnight. The eurasian market is huge when compared to US and people generally live in cities and can only use public charging stations. Does anyone know is Zero is purposefully making the bikes unatractive to non US markets, perhaps because they lack the size to be able to support sales/repairs, etc?

I've lost count of how many people interested in buying first bike and not even considering ICE gave up on the FXS because it doesn't have level 2 charging and people don't have garages or private parking. They had to buy the bike they weren't very enthused about (7.2kwh S) and pay extra for a charge tank. This makes the minimum price for a usable bike in non US markets very high.

Wouldn't it be in their investors' interests to sell more and create a loyal user base before the competition (years away, to be fair) captures the eurasian market? What could the rationale be for not having, at least, 3.3kw built-in charging on the FXS and S? I'm sure it's me who's missing something, but interested in other's perspectives for calibration.

[JaimeC]

How much does Energica cost in these same countries?  There seem to be plenty of electric bikes that sell for far cheaper than the Zero FX but they're not available in the US.  They don't appear to have the range or the power of the FX platform.

You get what you pay for.

[fcvarela]

How much does Energica cost in these same countries?  There seem to be plenty of electric bikes that sell for far cheaper than the Zero FX but they're not available in the US.  They don't appear to have the range or the power of the FX platform.

You get what you pay for.

In Europe at least, the Energicas are priced between SR/F and LiveWire, absolutely out of league for 99% people wanting a bike for cheap commute. The cheaper Zeros are what everyone wants but can't use. There are cheaper bikes but they're from new-ish brands without proven track record of having decent service, durability, etc.

My personal opinion is that the FXS and S would be perfect commuter bikes for our market if they had level 2 charging. The vast majority of potential commuters over here simply don't have an outlet to plug them into.

[TheRan]

At least here in the UK those that choose to ride are typically those that also either have a garage or can park the bike right in front of their house, on a drive way or the top of their front garden. Especially those that are will to spend in the neighbourhood of £10k for a bike. Those that would have to resort to street parking, for example if they live in a flat, also tend to be poorer, and those that aren't choose to rent a garage a short walk from their home.

[JaimeC]

You can always get the modular version of the FX or FXS.  That gives you an option that the other Zeros don't:  The ability to remove the battery and take it indoors to charge.  Also makes the bike less attractive parked outside, as it is of little use to a potential thief with the most expensive part removed.

[TheRan]

I don't think the modular version is an option outside of the US, at least it's not listed on their site.

[princec]

The days of bikes being transport for the great unwashed are unfortunately behind us now. Bikes are toys for the well heeled by-and-large, which is a massive shame, but it's a no-brainer when new cars now cost less than new bikes.

Cas

[fcvarela]

At least here in the UK those that choose to ride are typically those that also either have a garage or can park the bike right in front of their house, on a drive way or the top of their front garden. Especially those that are will to spend in the neighbourhood of £10k for a bike. Those that would have to resort to street parking, for example if they live in a flat, also tend to be poorer, and those that aren't choose to rent a garage a short walk from their home.

I live in London. The vast majority of houses here and in other european/asian cities - where a majority of potential customers exist - have neither a front porch, a garden or a garage. Most high paying jobs are in cities as well, which is also why most people who can afford a 10k bike live there. Even areas with dedicated parking don't have electricity much less infrastructure to charge a bike for 8h or more.

The fact is, there is a gigantic market for these bikes and they'd sell like hot pancakes if they were compatible with the infrastructure and city layouts of europe and Asia where a majority of people live in cities and have no private parking spaces regardless of how wealthy they are.

[Crissa]

If you can't charge overnight, you're going to lose the main advantage of an EV.  Zero cannot change that.

-Crissa

[fcvarela]

The days of bikes being transport for the great unwashed are unfortunately behind us now. Bikes are toys for the well heeled by-and-large, which is a massive shame, but it's a no-brainer when new cars now cost less than new bikes.

Cas

This is the thing. They're coming back. Here's why:

1 - Tax exempt for the forseeable future as long as cities need to encourage greener vehicles
2 - Environmentally friendly
3 - No noise
4 - No congestion taxes because they're bikes (not just because they're electric)
5 - Able to comfortably commute over many miles (unlike bicycles, electric scooters, unicycles, etc)
6 - People who commuted with public transport and can afford an electric motorcycle are aplenty in cities and are looking at them to avoid getting ill in this new COVID reality
7 - ICE taxes, congrstion taxes and circulation limitations are only going to go up/increase
8 - Most of europe and largest asian markets are flat out phasing out new ICE sales within a few years

US is different in many of these aspects, especially because it produces and exports fuels and has very little political will to sign lowered emissions resolutions.

[fcvarela]

If you can't charge overnight, you're going to lose the main advantage of an EV.  Zero cannot change that.

-Crissa

Why would I need to charge overnight if I can park near a public charger and charge in 1h? All I need is a bike with a faster charger. You're assuming what you see as an advantage is something that makes sense for everyone, perhaps? It certainly doesn't for me.

[princec]

That really is the biggest advantage of an electric bike though (as they're disadvantaged in so many other ways right now). I can't be arsed to get up an hour earlier to ride to a charging station before I can get to work. And hope there's a space. And hope that it works. Charging at home is pretty much the killer feature.

Cas

[fcvarela]

That really is the biggest advantage of an electric bike though (as they're disadvantaged in so many other ways right now). I can't be arsed to get up an hour earlier to ride to a charging station before I can get to work. And hope there's a space. And hope that it works. Charging at home is pretty much the killer feature.

Cas

I'm not arguing this isn't convenient for those who can. I'm saying the market will grow to everyone, not just those with private parking, and companies who don't cater for them (no fast charging) won't sell. Keep in mind within a few years all ICE sales will have been replaced with EV.

My case is what I imagine most people without private parking do. I charge it for 1h during weekend and i'm good for the week. I wouldn't be able to do this with an FXS.

My whole point is, charging speed matters when private parking isn't available and most potential new customers don't have private parking.

[valnar]

I live in London. The vast majority of houses here and in other european/asian cities - where a majority of potential customers exist - have neither a front porch, a garden or a garage. Most high paying jobs are in cities as well, which is also why most people who can afford a 10k bike live there. Even areas with dedicated parking don't have electricity much less infrastructure to charge a bike for 8h or more.

The fact is, there is a gigantic market for these bikes and they'd sell like hot pancakes if they were compatible with the infrastructure and city layouts of europe and Asia where a majority of people live in cities and have no private parking spaces regardless of how wealthy they are.

Well you can hardly blame Zero for the logistics of not having a place to charge your bike.  Europe made the decision to build their homes like that over 100 years without the knowledge of electric bikes, and this is what happens.  (In other words, no one is to blame).  If you don't have a garage, you won't be charging an EV car either.

That said, the Zero FX design is about 5 years old.  It's possible your wish will be granted soon enough.

[fcvarela]

I live in London. The vast majority of houses here and in other european/asian cities - where a majority of potential customers exist - have neither a front porch, a garden or a garage. Most high paying jobs are in cities as well, which is also why most people who can afford a 10k bike live there. Even areas with dedicated parking don't have electricity much less infrastructure to charge a bike for 8h or more.

The fact is, there is a gigantic market for these bikes and they'd sell like hot pancakes if they were compatible with the infrastructure and city layouts of europe and Asia where a majority of people live in cities and have no private parking spaces regardless of how wealthy they are.

Well you can hardly blame Zero for the logistics of not having a place to charge your bike.  Europe made the decision to build their homes like that over 100 years without the knowledge of electric bikes, and this is what happens.  (In other words, no one is to blame).  If you don't have a garage, you won't be charging an EV car either.

That said, the Zero FX design is about 5 years old.  It's possible your wish will be granted soon enough.

You misunderstood. There are plenty of places across europe and asia to charge EVs. Literally all roads around me have 2-3 lamp posts with level 2 chargers built in. EV cars are aplenty around here as they all have fast chargers. I think you're making the same mistake Zero is in assuming people who don't own garages are never going to buy your product. We would if the product had level 2 charging or even faster level1. I mean the FXS has a 650w charger, that's bonkers. Any wall socket here can do 3.3kw.