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[TEV]

Thanks TEV. I assumed that my signature would give the information. DSR 2016

Thanks!!

You're right, my bad.

[PVNRG]

I measured voltage between pins 7 and 18 and it was zero. I then checked the 4A MBB fuse and it was blown. There is good battery voltage at the DC/DC converter connector. With only that plugged in, inserting a 3.1A fuse in the battery immediately blows it. Seems to be multiple issues.

[Auriga]

OK,

Are you saying you that you measured the pins with the dcdc connector plugged in? If so, that would probably blow the MBB fuse. If you measured it with a good MBB fuse and the DCDC output disconnected, then I'd say your DCDC and BMS are toast, and your MBB may be bad as well, but there's no way to check without replacing the BMS first.

Battery voltage at the dcdc is not relevant, it comes directly from the battery.

Replacing the BMS and MBB will require a trip to the dealer, as Zero does not ship those to customers and they need to be programmed and configured.

The only plus side is that sometimes Zero will help with the cost of this failure, since those parts are very expensive. You could always call and ask.

Sorry about that dude, that sucks!

[PVNRG]

Yes, I checked the voltage at the MBB connector with everything else unplugged too. Then I noticed that the 4A MBB fuse was blown, probably the reason for no voltage. I don't know why that fuse would be so big. Any idea? What else is it powering other than the computer? Can't imagine the MBB requiring 300+ watts. It would melt. I could try putting another fuse in and with everything disconnected check for voltage. Maybe that would rule out the battery?

I tried a new 3.1A fuse with everything disconnected except for the DC/DC converter and it blew. That's what I meant to say.

I can check the DC/DC converter using a fused external DC power supply. That would be completely independent of anything on the bike. Now that I think about it, it may make sense that the DC/DC enable line needs a delay before bringing it high to avoid inrush? Hmm, that doesn't really make sense though. I can try it when hooked up to an external DC power supply.

[Auriga]

Yeah, the MBB fuse would have to be good to measure the voltage on those pins. I don't think the MBB fuse powers much except the MBB, but just because its set to blow at 4A doesn't mean it's continuous draw is anywhere near 4A. The owner's manual says mbb/controller fuse, so maybe some controller logic is powered through the MBB.

The Low power b+ fuse is in series with the MBB fuse to power the MBB, so if the low power b+ fuse keeps blowing, I'm fairly sure your DCDC is kaput. I don't think the DCDC is sensitive to inrush current. Probing those pins with good fuses and dcdc disconnected would still be my go to for determining if the bms is still good

[PVNRG]

Thanks for the help Auriga. With a temporary fuse installed in the MBB fuse holder and the MBB connectors disconnected, there is voltage across the pins 7 and 18. Couldn't get a 4A fuse overnighted for testing here later today but was able to get 3A fuses. When the 3A fuses arrive I will try plugging the MBB connectors in without fuses installed, then add the fuses and see if they hold.

[AutoE]

Fuse will NOT prevent BMS board from "lighting". BMS LEDs are BMS specific. Best suggestion is to remove and reset BMS having you "trained/skilled" technician clean all points of connection. We've seen batteries "die" only to become fully operational weeks/months later, this is especially true on 2014/15 model year FX modules.

[PVNRG]

The BMS lights are out again. If I press the software reset button they come back with the right #4 one blinking green like all is normal. Weird.

[Crissa]

That does sound like a weak electrical connection somewhere, PVNRG.

-Crissa

[PVNRG]

So I got a 3A slow blow 1/4" x 1-1/4" fuse for testing purposes and installed it in the MBB fuse holder. With only the MBB connectors connected, the 3.1A battery fuse blew immediately upon insertion. Battery is still blinking with the OK indication.

[Auriga]

Out of curiosity, what voltage did you get on the pins before you plugged the MBB in? If it was not pack voltage, the BMS is probably bad. If it was it could just be the MBB.

I do not think this is an intermittent wiring issue, but you could inspect the DCDC connector and the the MBB connector/harness for shorts.

If you were at a dealer they could connect to the BMS and see if it is still talking serial. Not sure if you have that capability.

Obviously I would not connect the DCDC up again, since it'll either blow the fuse or damage any parts you try to replace.
 

[PVNRG]

The voltage was about 110V.

I have a USB / UART serial cable for connection to MBB but of course that requires a working MBB.

I do have a CAN bus adapter but have not used it with anything yet. I am assuming that the battery only communicates over CAN. Is there information on how to read the BMS? Register map? Or is there a console available somehow?

Going to try powering up the DC/DC from a separate fused external power supply next. Wish I had my bench power supplies from my electronics lab here at home... Time to move the rest of the "home office" / workshop / lab back to my house.

[PVNRG]

Also, thank you TEV, Auriga, AutoE, and Crissa for the help so far. It is greatly appreciated.

[Auriga]

There is a page for it on the manual here. I have no idea if that works, but it looks right. Being a dealer, I have the Zero tools and equipment.
https://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=7561.0

You can talk to the MBB and the BMS through Serial and over CAN. BMS has that little white square serial/jtag connector next to the buttons and usually covered in goop

I think you're heading towards an MBB/DCDC and maybe a BMS swap. There isn't really anything else I'd try. I had someone who had roughly the same symptoms a year or so ago, and we had to replace all three of those. But Zero helped that guy with the price. All three of those are over 500 individually if memory serves.

[PVNRG]

Thanks for the information Auriga, that is very helpful!!

It is a tax holiday here in MA so I'm thinking about buying all three today just in case. Since the battery is still under warranty, do you know if that includes the BMS? I would think it would include that. The dealer is open until 3pm here so I need to make a decision quickly. Hmm