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[NEW2elec]

Well the B might stand for boring or backwards. 
It will be interesting to see how much longer they will produce the Gen 2 bikes.

Alwell, the post from Richard230 about Zero applying for two new trademark names gives some idea there will be new models at some time in the near future.  Maybe the Polaris models, but that would/should be Polaris' to name.

[valnar]

I think Zero (and most companies) can be forgiven for not updating their vehicles each and every year, especially in 2020.  We have no idea how much their suppliers and partners were affected too.  Fararis (for example) could have taken a 6 month hiatus from development for all we know.

[TheRan]

It hasn't been just a year though, the 2020 models are identical to the 2019 models that would have been developed in 2018 (and except for the battery capacity are the same as previous models back to 2016) and it's seeming like these 2021 models might be the same again. We're not after entirely new models but just some updates, things that probably should be possible like a battery capacity increase, faster charging, traction control, TFT dash, a reverse gear, LED turn signals.

[shayan]

I think more firmware updates is something that would be realistically possible for the rest of this year, so i would not be expecting things like battery bump etc. For example, I would really love to see more regen than the possible current maximum that there is.

I guess FWIW, we all would like a better on board charger and now that SR/F/S comes standard with a 3kW charger, the gen 2 platforms could use the same. When equipped with a CT and when connected to a 9kW+ EVSE, both chargers could be engaged to get a 9kW charging rate. (wishful thinking) 

And engaging CT + OBC this way was something Zero was doing with the previous gen CT if i'm not wrong

[Curt]

It hasn't been just a year though, the 2020 models are identical to the 2019 models that would have been developed in 2018 (and except for the battery capacity are the same as previous models back to 2016) and it's seeming like these 2021 models might be the same again. We're not after entirely new models but just some updates, things that probably should be possible like a battery capacity increase, faster charging, traction control, TFT dash, a reverse gear, LED turn signals.

And regen brake settings that are not a joke.

Frankly it's been rather disappointing. Five model years after I bought mine, the FX has 11% more range, and little else to show, where the removable battery became non-standard and price increased $1500. Maybe the motor was improved slightly. I have no reason to upgrade.

[NEW2elec]

Shayan, I was just about to bring up "hopefully" using the 3kW SRS chargers but we'll see.

I get it with the cost savings of keeping a design going.  I mean look at the DR650 and KLM650 those bike are almost the same for 30 years, so yeah it's a way to recoup the R&D costs of the bikes.

But if there really is no new features for the Gen 2 bikes then it's mostly been the same since 2018.  A price drop wouldn't hurt.

[Auriga]

You can only get a price drop if the manufacturer actually gets a reduced price on components. Otherwise they just lose out on profit. I don't think they're seeing that in Gen 2 bikes, and I don't know if they have enough profit margin to do that.

I think they'll replace the S with some variant of the SR/F soonish. Which would simplify manufacturing, and give the S some upgrades(like the 3kW charger).

I don't expect they'll decide to substantially change the Gen2 platform. Any real changes would have to go through homologation, and I'm not sure they have enough bandwidth for that. I mean they're rumored to be working on a DSR/X(FST variant of DSR), an FX/E(FX upgrades?), and some kind of CCS integration(no proof, but it would be shocking if they weren't).

Different question, has any EV manufacturer announced an upgrade in battery capacity this year? Zero can only build with what the market provides.

[NEW2elec]

Well Energica went from 13kWh to 21kWh for what is technically the 2021 model year.
Don't get me wrong the SRF and SRS were a major step forward and very nice bikes but from 2012 to 2018 the S/DS(R)s had a few new features each year. 

If you watch the last video I posted on the Damon thread their CEO talks about what may be keeping Zero where they are with battery capacity.  It's his opinion but it does make some sense.

For some time now I've said drop the S and DS, keep the SR and DSR but drop the "R" from their names since it just brings up insurance on a 102 MPH bike.  Then make the motors and buy the controllers in higher volumes to eek out some more savings.
People can dial down the power in the app if they feel they need to but most people don't mind having power when needed/wanted.

[TheRan]

For some time now I've said drop the S and DS, keep the SR and DSR but drop the "R" from their names since it just brings up insurance on a 102 MPH bike.  Then make the motors and buy the controllers in higher volumes to eek out some more savings.
People can dial down the power in the app if they feel they need to but most people don't mind having power when needed/wanted.

If they do that they lose the 7.2 S/DS as well as the ability to have an A1 model of each for the European market. Anyone who wants those would be stuck going with an FX/S. I'd imagine insurance is still going to be higher than the non-R models even if they get rid of the R in the name simply because they have more power.

[Auriga]

Well Energica went from 13kWh to 21kWh for what is technically the 2021 model year.
Don't get me wrong the SRF and SRS were a major step forward and very nice bikes but from 2012 to 2018 the S/DS(R)s had a few new features each year. 

If you watch the last video I posted on the Damon thread their CEO talks about what may be keeping Zero where they are with battery capacity.  It's his opinion but it does make some sense.

For some time now I've said drop the S and DS, keep the SR and DSR but drop the "R" from their names since it just brings up insurance on a 102 MPH bike.  Then make the motors and buy the controllers in higher volumes to eek out some more savings.
People can dial down the power in the app if they feel they need to but most people don't mind having power when needed/wanted.

I almost don't count them, because they went from a less energy dense cylindrical cell to a pouch cell, and made their battery larger. Assuming their pouch cell is close to zero's pouch cell, the only way for Zero get more range is to make the battery bigger or for battery technology to advance .

The Damon video is interesting, if they can get a reliable battery with double the energy density and no other detrimental effects, that'll be a gamechanger. But there's a huge if there.  I don't know any production battery that has that density without more detrimental effects in longevity or thermal performance.

I don't think they'll get rid of the A1 models for the EU market, but I wonder if a software limited SR or FST platform bike could fill that gap.

[Richard230]

My thought is that Zero is going to do whatever it is that their retail dealers say their customers want. If they want a higher-voltage platform and CCS charging, that is what Zero will do their best to develop. But if they are receiving feedback that says their customers don't care about high-voltage and CCS and only want L1 and L2 charging at the lowest price possible, that is what they will get.    My observation of Zero during the past 10 years is that they are nothing if not keenly focused on supplying electric motorcycles that will attract new customers, including ICE motorcycle riders, at as low a cost as they can provide. I think the fact that they still use a 116V drive train, L1 and L2 charging, air instead of liquid cooling and retain their legacy models is an indication that they know (or believe) that their customers want a (relatively) basic bike without Energica technology or weight.

However, it is possible that major upgrades to their power train and batteries might be forthcoming in the future if they receive a request from Polaris to develop new technology. I can see how Polaris might want to stick with L1 and L2 charging, but water cooling could be something that they might like to see on their off-road platforms. 

[Crissa]

People can dial down the power in the app if they feel they need to but most people don't mind having power when needed/wanted.

They can't dial down the registration and license restrictions, though.  This is why other American companies have trouble porting their designs to places that have power restrictions.  Which are becoming more common.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

I'm in Georgia USA and my comments and suggestions come from there and apply to there.
I think most people in EU should be able to see that this thinly veiled "safety" issue is a suppressive money grab and I would urge people to vote out those who pull such ploys.

Just do it like this:
Here's a Zero that has been neutered.  In one year take and pass a "real" motorcycle riders course and then we'll open the full power to the bike.  So go practice.  The license cost should only reflect the cost of the government running the test site.

The little game of pay full retail for a small bike then trade it in at a loss and move up a spot and do it over and over while paying a license tax for each step is one heck of a scam.

But don't worry Zero will keep making the little bikes.

[TheRan]

It doesn't matter whether you think it's a good system or not, it's one that exists and won't be changing any time soon.

If your idea is only for the American market then fine, although I don't think many people would agree with you (there are plenty of people that actually want a cheaper non-R 14.4 model), but America isn't the only market Zero sells bikes in. It would be very stupid of them to get rid of the non-R models in Europe and it wouldn't be the smartest idea to have non-R models in America (that would have previously been R models) be more powerful than the ones in Europe and then only have R models available in Europe. It would just confuse consumers.

[shayan]

I wonder where the Exrof project will fit into all this..