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[heroto]

I don't expect a 3KW charger to stay at 3KW at all times while charging a battery.

Why not? I've owned two zeros and after the short ramp up the charge rate stayed pegged on the max on both until the rebalancing bit at the end, regardless of ambient temperature.

I can confirm that the projected charge time displayed on the dash, and the actual charge time lengthen as the charge rate drops.

Most of the places I like to ride have only AC charging.

 

[DonTom]

Why not? I've owned two zeros and after the short ramp up the charge rate stayed pegged on the max on both until the rebalancing bit at the end, regardless of ambient temperature.

I can confirm that the projected charge time displayed on the dash, and the actual charge time lengthen as the charge rate drops.

Most of the places I like to ride have only AC charging.

I have noticed some weirdness with charging my Zeros.  Such as when I start a charge at 80% SOC compared to when I start a charge at 70% and then get to 80%. If I start at the 80%, I can only charge at 2KW with 6 KWs worth of chargers.  But if I start at 70% then I get close to the full 6 KW even when at 80% SOC. I really don't know why. But I know the same happens to somebody I know who owns a new Zero SR/S.  But no difference at lower charge rates (below 2 KW). Perhaps happens on all Zeros that tries to start charging at 6 KW when at 80% SOC.

And as you can see, my Energica also drops off the charge rate as does yours.  So I assume they all do the same.  What the BMS is doing, in either case, I have no idea. It's just stuff that I have observed.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
 

[heroto]

Alas, not my experience.
SOC is unrelated.  My SS9+ does the same ambient temp dependent slowdown regardless of SOC: 15%, 30%, 60% or 80%, doesn't matter. Also, it seems the Energica charge slow down is ambient temp dependent. Cooler ambient = less slow down.
The SR/F fan clearly was moving a lot more air - a large contrast with the Energica. 
I freely admit I'm no engineer but surely these could be related.

[DonTom]

Alas, not my experience.
SOC is unrelated.  My SS9+ does the same ambient temp dependent slowdown regardless of SOC: 15%, 30%, 60% or 80%, doesn't matter. Also, it seems the Energica charge slow down is ambient temp dependent. Cooler ambient = less slow down.
The SR/F fan clearly was moving a lat more air - a large contrast, day and night, black and white. 
I freely admit I'm no engineer but surely these could be related.

Come to think about it, when DC fast charging the amp meter on the bike is obviously showing the DC current to the battery. IIRC, it's the same amp meter used on an AC charge as DC.  No decimal shown on DC fast charge  makes sense.  But perhaps becomes inaccurate at low current draw, besides the fact  we do not have  a decimal.  So it must be showing DC current to the battery at all times, even during an AC charge.  So 10 amps times 300VDC   is 3KW, the same rating as the charger.

Perhaps the SS9+ charges at a slightly lower rate, but 8 amps at 300 VDC is still 2,400 watts and since it is probably "constant current", that wattage will vary depending on the state of charge as well as other factors which could explain your steady 8 amps which really could be 3 KW at times.

What AC charging current are other "+" models getting in the midrange, say around 40 to 60% SOC (with 240 VAC)?

I now  expect there is nothing wrong there.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

I am hoping for a direct observation. Plug it in and confirm.

Mine clearly blows in. Confirmed with a sheet of paper. Feels like it is blowing out when I use my hand,  which is deceiving.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[DonTom]

The amps shown is the primary side. .

What makes you assume that?

Can you find it in writing anywhere? And how do you explain it reading on a DC fast charge where it has to be the  battery side as that is all there is?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[reini]

The amps shown is the primary side. .

What makes you assume that?
Can you find it in writing anywhere? And how do you explain it reading on a DC fast charge where it has to be the  battery side as that is all there is?

Maths And you are right, on DC primary = secondary as it goes straight to the battery. My statement therefore still holds.

[heroto]

Long story short I believe USA Energica now believes I am not FOS and is looking to Italy for guidance.
Just my opinion, but their AC charge cooling system is not up to snuff, which would account for my experience, and likely others'.
Also JMO, but Energica is a class outfit and will fix this.

[DonTom]

Long story short I believe USA Energica now believes I am not FOS and is looking to Italy for guidance.
Just my opinion, but their AC charge cooling system is not up to snuff, which would account for my experience, and likely others'.
Also JMO, but Energica is a class outfit and will fix this.

I would prefer the longer version.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[heroto]

Chargepoint stations provide a graph of charge rate over time. The initial charge is below spec, and the charge rapidly drops close to L1 range as the system warms up, can't deny with this third party hard data.

I'll add: Energica has got so much right, they could storm ahead of Zero, but the modest claimed spec 3.3kW AC charging makes touring outside of L3 territory limited. And alas as I and others have clearly documented, in the wild charging is far less than that, which makes this goal simply impossible if a US rider's goal is more than 100ish miles per day in rural areas.
I truly hope E figures this out and delivers an effective fix. I'll bet a Benjamin that the cooling system and/or transformer will receive a major tweak.  I'll be first in line and willing to pay for an upgrade that truly works.
Even better:
Yo Energica: please provide a 12 or more kW AC upgrade that works as promised. Please. That would work very well here in the US.

[DonTom]

Chargepoint stations provide a graph of charge rate over time. The initial charge is below spec, and the charge rapidly drops close to L1 range as the system warms up, can't deny with this third party hard data.

I'll add: Energica has got so much right, they could storm ahead of Zero, but the modest claimed spec 3.3kW AC charging makes touring outside of L3 territory limited. And alas as I and others have clearly documented, in the wild charging is far less than that, which makes this goal simply impossible if a US rider's goal is more than 100ish miles per day in rural areas.
I truly hope E figures this out and delivers an effective fix. I'll bet a Benjamin that the cooling system and/or transformer will receive a major tweak.  I'll be first in line and willing to pay for an upgrade that truly works.
Even better:
Yo Energica: please provide a 12 or more kW AC upgrade that works as promised. Please. That would work very well here in the US.

I never saw a J1772 on the road that can do 12 KW, but it is possible from a Tesla Destination Station and a Tesla-Tap.

I am surprised others here with 2021 + models  have not mentioned their charge rates on L2.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

Where would they put the giant L2 charger?

-Crissa

[ultrarnr]

I think it was a thread on the Zero forum on how useful 12kw L2 charger would be in the US that Terry replied that about 99% of allL2 chargers he saw were only 6.6 kW. Only a few could charge faster. I also have a Tesla Model 3 and a lot of Tesla destination chargers are only going to get you around 6.6 kw. There are some faster but don't take it for granted they will be. I charge my Ribelle on 220 volts, which pulls 13-14 Amps and 3 kW. If you need a full charge it can take as long as about 5 1/2 hours. For anyone considering a Ribella keep in mind that L1 charge times can be over 24 hours. The days of just plugging in your electric motorcycle into a 110 volt outlet and charging overnight are coming to an end.

[Sklith]

Even though I can charge my Ego on 120V I still prefer to use 240V since I can cut the amps in half, and the onboard charger won't be worked so hard.

[DonTom]

I think it was a thread on the Zero forum on how useful 12kw L2 charger would be in the US that Terry replied that about 99% of allL2 chargers he saw were only 6.6 kW. Only a few could charge faster. I also have a Tesla Model 3 and a lot of Tesla destination chargers are only going to get you around 6.6 kw. There are some faster but don't take it for granted they will be. I charge my Ribelle on 220 volts, which pulls 13-14 Amps and 3 kW. If you need a full charge it can take as long as about 5 1/2 hours. For anyone considering a Ribella keep in mind that L1 charge times can be over 24 hours. The days of just plugging in your electric motorcycle into a 110 volt outlet and charging overnight are coming to an end.

I have seen J1772 stations as low as 5.5 KW, as high as 8.4 KW, but yeah, most can only do around 6.6 KW. And some of the older ones split the power if two are being used, so make that then as low as 2.75 KW with a few older J1772 charge stations. Newer Chargepoint J1772s can  do 6.6 KW per port, so if there is a way to use both (even from the same charge station) you can get as much as 13.2 KW.  I often charge my 2017 Zero SR at 8.4 KW by hogging up two ports, using my external chargers with two J1772 adapters.

Tesla Destination stations vary all over the place. Some on the road can do 16 KW. Others as low as 8. My Tesla Wall Connector at my houses  can do 12 KW each.

The free Tesla Destination stations  at the Story County Courthouse (in Virginia City, NV)  can do 8 KW. But the two J1772's right next to it can do 8.4 KW each.  The Tesla Destination stations at the Carson Valley Inn in Minden, NV and the Recharge Restaurant in Sparks can do 16 KW each. And all of these are free and open for anybody to use.  I have used all of them (as you can see on Plugshare).

And some people use a lot of the "home chargers" listed on Plugshare, which are usually 12 KW as mine are. So I cannot say 12 KW is useless in the USA as long as you have a 50 amp Tesla-Tap.  But I have found a few will turn off in five minutes when a 50 amp  Tesla-Tap is used. I have no idea why, never happens at home. But be sure to recheck in ten minutes whenever using a Tesla Destination station  with a  Tesla Tap.

-Don-  Auburn, CA