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[Richard230]

The 2014 S that I owned and gave my daughter never needed to be "commissioned" and is still running fine. What Zero really should do is to "recommission" their OB chargers.   

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

If your charger never failed, would you say that in every charger failed thread?

-Crissa

No, it is just on my mind this week. My new charger is scheduled to arrive on Thursday.  I just like to keep the charger subject going in the hopes that Zero will finally get the message and come up with a solution.     If it wasn't for the chargers failing, the three Zeros that I have owned would have been 100% reliable. So that is the only thing I have to complain about. 

[Richard230]

TheRan, This is from the Motor section of the unofficial manual (if it links right) and says the 2016 FXS had it so that's what I went by for that.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/XMX_Platform/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Z-Force_Motor_IPM_Update

In the main Zero owners manual (page 6.5 for my 2017) it has the "Drive Motor  Commissioning and Timing" intervals at 600m 8000 miles and every 8000 there after.

I was going by this page: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Motor
The page you linked says that FX and S/DS models (not FXS for some reason) with the "3-brick battery" were still SPM for a while, I'm still not completely sure what all the battery terminology means and how that differs from a "longbrick" which from the page I was looking at didn't switch to IPM until 2017. It's interesting that commissioning would differ between the two types (different software) if it was just the attachment method of the batteries that was different, there must be some circuitry differences as well.

You're indeed right about the commissioning every 8k miles, surprised no one else has mentioned that from what I've seen. I was under the impression that once it's done it's something that stays put but I suppose it must drift a bit over time.

So 2016 was the first year for both the IPM motor and the FXS model and I guess they were worried about people running the little supermoto too hard and having it over heat so they just started it out on the IPM motor.
Zero has always put older inventory parts on the lower end bikes until they are used up so the SPM motor went into the smaller battery (aka 3 brick) and full 4 brick S and DS models until they were gone.

You can feel the difference between the IPM and SPM with the SPM being much "snappier".  I'm no expert by any means but with the magnets being further away from the coils to help with the over heating I think the commissioning makes sure the encoder knows exactly how the magnets are aligned and keeps it from doing what the OP described as stalling and some reverse movement which isn't good.

I have noticed the same thing. My 2014 Zero seemed to have more torque and a snappier throttle response than my 2018 S, with its IPM motor. Both bikes were PT equipped and weighed the same.

[Crissa]

No, it is just on my mind this week. ...   ::)  If it wasn't for the chargers failing, the three Zeros that I have owned would have been 100% reliable. So that is the only thing I have to complain about.  ;)

^-^

[AutoE]

In another thread I wrote:

Can you point me to additional information about alignment?  Sometimes my 2016 fxs seems to want to go, but stops, then might seem to want to go backward, but stops, and repeats that sequence several times.  Other times it works flawlessly.  I turn off the key switch then turn it back on and it usually corrects itself.  My nearest "dealer" is 200 miles away and an unsuccessful attempt to order parts(front brake lever) from them did not convince me that they were a place I would want to trust to service or repair my bike.

Hi Fifty3,  Encoder "alignment" is a very serious problem that is misunderstood by most.  Zero initially replaced motors and then, seemingly, determined the problem was too wide spread and too costly to correctly address.  If your dealers claims to have fixed the problem, do 2 things first.  First, ask them what the problem was to describe what happened.  Secondly, either lifted or under load, run the motor.  If you lose alignment again do not ride the bike.  It best to run at higher speeds and safest under load on a dyno.  Loss of alignment can result in loss of life.

[Fifty3]

I took my FXS to the dealer 15 days ago.  When I called them this morning, they told me that they hadn't touched the bike, because they only had two techs in the shop and hadn't gotten to it yet. That does not match up with what I was told when I took it in.   I am probably going to go to the dealer and pick up the bike tomorrow.  I will probably part it out, as the parts are worth more than the defective motorcycle.  Zero seems to be an appropriate name for the bike, as that is the score I would give it, based on my experience with it so far.  I have to assume that if it were a brand new bike with full warranty, I would still have the same problem, because the dealer still would not have enough techs to get to it on a timely basis.

[NEW2elec]

Fifty3 you have a bad dealer.  As I've posted before if you went to a Dr. and they didn't get you feeling better would you end it all or go find a different Dr.?  Old grease monkeys who can tear down and rebuild a gas bike with their eyes closed, hate having to ask for help and wait for a tech to figure out what's wrong, when they could be doing 10 oil changes in that time.

Basically at worst your looking at about $3k for a whole new motor if the encoder is shot. May very well just be a $50 commissioning.
If your that hard headed about it please just sell it as is and let someone who is willing to deal with an EV use the bike.

The Forum is willing to help guide you but you can't just give up because it's not going the way you imagine it should.
Good luck man.

[DonTom]

If it wasn't for the chargers failing, the three Zeros that I have owned would have been 100% reliable. So that is the only thing I have to complain about. 

I think it depends on luck. My SR had a front ABS wheel sensor crap out. I replaced it myself even though the bike was still in warranty.

My DS had the battery crap out.  Also, during warranty. I let the dealer do that one, of course! Both of my chargers are as good as new (so far).

BTW, I am curious about your "2018 16.6 kWh Zero S". Those numbers don't seem to add up for the year.

14.4 KWH = main battery. The power tank should be 25% or 3.6 KW. 14.4 plus 3.6 KW adds up to 18 KW.

If it's the older batteries, as my 2017 SR, it still does not add up. 13KW plus 3.3 KW=16.3 KW.

But what will add up, is if your main battery is old (13.0 KW) and your charge tank is newer (3.6 K) to equal 16.6 KW.

Did you have your charge tank added on a year later? If so, did you notice around a  28% increase in your range?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

I'd vote up NEW2elec's response.

I'd be incensed if I took anything to a service tech and they 'didn't touch it' for two weeks.

That seems more on the dealer than the bike.

-Crissa

[AutoE]

How are they suppose to "touch it" if they've never been trained?

[NEW2elec]

If it's a Zero dealer someone there should be trained.  More serious issues they will call and a Zero HQ tech who will walk them through what needs to be checked and done. 

[Crissa]

If they're not trained, they shouldn't have accepted the job.

-Crissa

[AutoE]

If it's a Zero dealer someone there should be trained.  More serious issues they will call and a Zero HQ tech who will walk them through what needs to be checked and done.

Zero does not train, by design. Trained techs repair bikes. Repairs require parts. Repairs cost money. Zero doesn't like to pay.

[Fifty3]

I really don't care whether the problem is at the dealer or at the factory.  I blame Zero for allowing someone to be a dealer if they don't have the resources to do the job.  I have mentally written the "zero" off as a bad decision on my part, and have continued to enjoy my operating and repairable motorcycles.  I know of at least two sales that this situation has cost Zero, so, actually, Zero is paying.

[Crissa]

Well, then name the dealer.

Neither we nor Zero can know which dealer is being a twit about it unless someone stands up and says.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Fifty3 what did you mean by this:
"  Due to the nature of the purchase, no service records are available to me. "

Where did you get the bike from?

Sounds kind of like an auction.

Of course the idea that a manufacturer somehow has control over a shop mechanic's work ethic is not realistic at all, but you can feel about it however you'd like.

And while we're at it how much do you want for the worthless piece of crap?