Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fifty3]

In another thread I wrote:

Can you point me to additional information about alignment?  Sometimes my 2016 fxs seems to want to go, but stops, then might seem to want to go backward, but stops, and repeats that sequence several times.  Other times it works flawlessly.  I turn off the key switch then turn it back on and it usually corrects itself.  My nearest "dealer" is 200 miles away and an unsuccessful attempt to order parts(front brake lever) from them did not convince me that they were a place I would want to trust to service or repair my bike.

One of the responses was:

Make a new thread, please. This may be unrelated, and troubleshooting it is going to muck up this thread even more.

So, here is a new thread with more information.

I took my FXS to the nearest dealer (Synergy Motorworks, only 184 miles away) and they told me I would have to leave it with them because the problem required response from the Zero factory and they were usually a bit slow to respond.  Today is one week later and still no response.  It is summer.  I should be riding my motorcycle, but I'm not.  I am at the mercy of Zero to decide when to provide the dealer information that will allow the repair to be made so I can get back on the road.

I read complaints about e-bikes having limited range, taking hours to charge and sometimes operating at reduced power if they are ridden too hard.  I was aware of those problems and decided those limitations were something I could live with.  Somehow it had escaped my notice that riders and even dealers were at the mercy of the factory in getting repairs and/or adjustments made.  For me, this is a deal-breaker in owning a motorcycle.  I have owned 40 Hondas and NEVER had a similar problem.  Yamaha, Kawasaki, Triumph, Husqvarna, Suzuki, and even Bridgestone have never been an obstacle to getting repairs done and quickly getting me back on the road.  When the Zero is working, it is fantastic.  When it isn't working, it is the worst motorcycle I have owned. 

[DPsSRnSD]

I hope they get to your bike soon. Have you had scheduled maintenance done? If the dealer says the bike has been sitting waiting for Zero, tell them you want to pull it for the original problem and now you want (to pay for) scheduled maintenance. That will include the motor alignment. If they go for it, you might get lucky. If so, definitely ride around the dealer to see if you can make the problem come back, before you go home. Zero wants to diagnosis the problem. You just want to be riding.

[Crissa]

This probably would take Zero's help, as it's not a particularly common problem.

Zero is a little slow, and we're back under COVID19 restrictions here in Santa Cruz.  It took them two weeks to fix it when they blew up my mainboard in my bike, so I would expect at least a two-week turnaround.

The problem you're seeing is if the computer or main linkage in an ICE bike was misfiring the engine, and the shop didn't just have a new computer or a clear path to diagnose why it was doing something it should never do.  So they have to wait until the manufacturer gets back to them so they can make the right diagnosis without destroying the motor.  It's more a function of rarity than anything.

Glad you were able to get it to a dealer to get it into the diagnostic queue!

-Crissa

(Fixed 'about' to 'at least' since it's more accurate)

[DonTom]

It took them two weeks to fix it when they blew up my mainboard in my bike, so I would expect about a two-week turnaround.

Do you have a thread here about that? I would like to hear what happened there!

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[TEV]

It took them two weeks to fix it when they blew up my mainboard in my bike, so I would expect about a two-week turnaround.

Do you have a thread here about that? I would like to hear what happened there!

-Don-  Auburn, CA

She isn't "philosophying" on that one : https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9437.msg82734#msg82734

[NEW2elec]

So Fifty3 I assume you mean motor commissioning which is the 8k mile service needed for the IPM motors.

I can't really remember if a 16 FXS had an IPM motor and they dropped the spec pages for older bikes.
(I WISH THEY WOULD BRING THOSE BACK) 

edit: never mind they do, thanks unofficial manual.

It does have the IPM motor so when did you last have it commissioned?

[TheRan]

Only the SR/DSR got IPM in 2016, it was 2017 for all the other models. Also the motor commissioning is done for the first service at 600 miles and only done the once as far as I know, at least I haven't seen anyone mention having it done multiple times. Is the commissioning only for IPM anyway? The only difference is the placement of the magnets and I don't see how that would make any difference, and I'm pretty sure Brian said previously that commissioning was actually more important on the older motors.

[Fifty3]

I bought the bike, used, with 1700 miles on it.  I have ridden it less than 100 miles.  Due to the nature of the purchase, no service records are available to me.  The trip to the dealer was not related to any pre-determined service intervals.  It was purely because of erratic behavior as described in my original post in this thread. 

[NEW2elec]

TheRan, This is from the Motor section of the unofficial manual (if it links right) and says the 2016 FXS had it so that's what I went by for that.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/XMX_Platform/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Z-Force_Motor_IPM_Update

In the main Zero owners manual (page 6.5 for my 2017) it has the "Drive Motor  Commissioning and Timing" intervals at 600m 8000 miles and every 8000 there after.

Fifty3, well then it's not your fault but maybe the first owner never had it done or it could be a bad motor encoder which would mean you would need a new motor.

Hopefully a commissioning can set it straight.  I get that your frustrated but you have to keep a few things in mind.
Zero is a small fraction the size of the big bike brands you talked about so in the best of times it's a slower moving process, with Covid it's much worse. 
There is a time difference that compounds the problem of hooking up the Shop to Zero tech.
And a lot of these shop guys resent having to call someone for help in the first place.

Good luck with it man and just try to be patient.

[TheRan]

TheRan, This is from the Motor section of the unofficial manual (if it links right) and says the 2016 FXS had it so that's what I went by for that.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/XMX_Platform/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Z-Force_Motor_IPM_Update

In the main Zero owners manual (page 6.5 for my 2017) it has the "Drive Motor  Commissioning and Timing" intervals at 600m 8000 miles and every 8000 there after.

I was going by this page: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Motor
The page you linked says that FX and S/DS models (not FXS for some reason) with the "3-brick battery" were still SPM for a while, I'm still not completely sure what all the battery terminology means and how that differs from a "longbrick" which from the page I was looking at didn't switch to IPM until 2017. It's interesting that commissioning would differ between the two types (different software) if it was just the attachment method of the batteries that was different, there must be some circuitry differences as well.

You're indeed right about the commissioning every 8k miles, surprised no one else has mentioned that from what I've seen. I was under the impression that once it's done it's something that stays put but I suppose it must drift a bit over time.

[Crissa]

Well, the description of the procedure is more like 'make sure it hasn't drifted'.

So maybe it's not that they expect it, but it does need to be fixed on some subset of bikes.

-Crissa

[Richard230]

The 2014 S that I owned and gave my daughter never needed to be "commissioned" and is still running fine. What Zero really should do is to "recommission" their OB chargers.   

[DPsSRnSD]

The 2014 S that I owned and gave my daughter never needed to be "commissioned" and is still running fine. What Zero really should do is to "recommission" their OB chargers.   

I heard about this guy who had a 2016 SR and only took it in for service to change the tires because he was too busy riding it all the time and didn't have a tire installer at home. But if someone does have the opportunity, they should support their local dealer as much as they can.

[Crissa]

The 2014 S that I owned and gave my daughter never needed to be "commissioned" and is still running fine. What Zero really should do is to "recommission" their OB chargers.   

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

If your charger never failed, would you say that in every charger failed thread?

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

TheRan, This is from the Motor section of the unofficial manual (if it links right) and says the 2016 FXS had it so that's what I went by for that.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/XMX_Platform/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Z-Force_Motor_IPM_Update

In the main Zero owners manual (page 6.5 for my 2017) it has the "Drive Motor  Commissioning and Timing" intervals at 600m 8000 miles and every 8000 there after.

I was going by this page: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Motor
The page you linked says that FX and S/DS models (not FXS for some reason) with the "3-brick battery" were still SPM for a while, I'm still not completely sure what all the battery terminology means and how that differs from a "longbrick" which from the page I was looking at didn't switch to IPM until 2017. It's interesting that commissioning would differ between the two types (different software) if it was just the attachment method of the batteries that was different, there must be some circuitry differences as well.

You're indeed right about the commissioning every 8k miles, surprised no one else has mentioned that from what I've seen. I was under the impression that once it's done it's something that stays put but I suppose it must drift a bit over time.

So 2016 was the first year for both the IPM motor and the FXS model and I guess they were worried about people running the little supermoto too hard and having it over heat so they just started it out on the IPM motor.
Zero has always put older inventory parts on the lower end bikes until they are used up so the SPM motor went into the smaller battery (aka 3 brick) and full 4 brick S and DS models until they were gone.

You can feel the difference between the IPM and SPM with the SPM being much "snappier".  I'm no expert by any means but with the magnets being further away from the coils to help with the over heating I think the commissioning makes sure the encoder knows exactly how the magnets are aligned and keeps it from doing what the OP described as stalling and some reverse movement which isn't good.