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[DonTom]

...But the charger has been exposed to current the entire time.  The contactor protects the battery, not the charger.

The charger draws almost no current when the battery is not being charged by it. If no connection the the battery, the charger will stay cold.

The big spark is on the contactor, when the connector closes for a high charge rate.  Not much you can do about that spark from the AC cord.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

The big spark is on the contactor, when the connector closes for a high charge rate.

Alas, that's not how arc-fault damage works, dear.  That's where it fails, not where the damage come from.

The electrons are like cows, waiting to get through the gate.  They don't rush the gate when the ranchhand mishandles the latch, they do it when they're called.  And then the gate fails and they rush through, breaking everything as they pass.

-Crissa

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

DonTom, I'm really getting tired of your condescension towards others on this forum. You make every discussion you're in worse when you try to lecture people on electricity. You're pedantic and your point is irrelevant.

Literally every owner observes or hears a spark when connecting an AC power source to the onboard charger, because it has limited or nearly no inrush protection.

The Gigavac contactor is rated for the correct load that is applied to it, and is in turn protected by the BMS using sensors to only close it when the voltage difference is low enough to minimize arcing (provided by precharge or an appropriately leveled external power supply).

Your post is rude and condescending, for no good reason.

[Crissa]

Apologies, Brian.

That was me.

-Crissa

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

It was not Crissa. I know exactly what I was calling out and why. I avoid quoting in my posts and label behavior very carefully because I've been threatened here before and have decided that I can only engage with certain segments of this community very deliberately and strategically.

[DonTom]

Apologies, Brian.

-Crissa

I will apologize also, even though I have no idea what Brian  is complaining about.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MrBlc]

@Brian
Having been in much the same situation as you (in this thread) on similar episodes, i feel your frustration.
I too have tried explaining in detail what i want answer on, only to be ignored by the party at the other end..



That being said, there IS a huge difference in being an electrical engineer and being an electronics engineer..
I too understand the essence of how these chargers work, but i have to ask a friend on details when it comes to switched supplies simply because they use semiconductor trickery to obtain higher efficiency.
As such i normally understand things DonTom says in this forum, having the same background and all, but it's clear to me that he knows about the same amount on switched power supply electronics as Crissa knows about electrical engineering theory..

It's sad that people "do a Trump" instead of just admitting they don't know.. (that means to double down and still claiming to know things despite clearly not being able to give a good reply)

The arcing people hear when plugging in a hot wire to the inlet port of the bike is, yes.. Inrush current! This is very typical behaviour of switched power supplies and even happens when there is arc suppression circuits installed. (just lower intensity of arcs)
The times you don't hear them when doing this is when you happen to hit the sinal wave of the AC supply at it's exact point of crossing from negative to opposite or vice-versa.

As for trying to explain the details how a fail inside the charger; i don't have the knowledge to be able to add anything more to this at current stage. As i am currently involved in a electronics project in relation to chargers, i'm hoping to pick up more as i move along, from my project partner (which is an electronics engineer)

[Richard230]

I will comment that I can never recall a time that I have ever seen a spark when plugging in my Zero's OB charger cord with any of the three Zeros that I have owned, whether plugging in at the wall or at the bike's power port. I will plug in the cord and then a couple of seconds later I will hear a loud "click" and the bike will start charging. So that process seems safe to me, unlike other 12V motorcycle battery chargers that I own which really do spark when they are first connected to the wall outlet.

[DonTom]

I will comment that I can never recall a time that I have ever seen a spark when plugging in my Zero's OB charger cord with any of the three Zeros that I have owned, whether plugging in at the wall or at the bike's power port.

Check when more dark. I see the small (and expected) spark, but I am not convinced it's a problem unless it's a large spark showing there is excessive current being drawn.

A possible  exception is how  sparks over time can cause some damage at the bike's AC power inlet.

The very few times I charge with 120 VAC,  I simply make sure I have a good connection at the bike's inlet with no juice on the cord  and plug in at the opposite end and that's where I see the small spark. And my inlets still look like they did when the bike was new.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

I always get a spark when plugging in, which was slowly degrading the supplied cable.  Some outlets are worse than others, too.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

I always get a spark when plugging in, which was slowly degrading the supplied cable.  Some outlets are worse than others, too.

-Crissa

I don't see how that can hurt the cable, other than on the contacts right where the spark is located, over time.

At 120 VAC the cord will slowly deteriorate from the heat. Since the OBC is designed to reduce the input current as the voltage is increased, the cords will last much longer if used with 240 VAC where the supply current is half to keep the wattage the same.

-Don-  Reno, NV (now headed for Auburn on my Energica)

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Contact cleaner on the C14 inlet (and occasionally the C13 plug) is a good thing to apply now and then.

I've used 208V/240V AC on the inlet and, while the warming is certainly lower, I don't think it changes the impact of inrush. Whether that contributes to component wear, I couldn't say, since the majority of unsourced but inferred speculation about charger vulnerability has been CAN-side.

[Crissa]

A spark is air turned into a plasma.  It will create heat, carbon, and burn away some of the metal, too.  That carbon will increase the resistance through the contact, and creates further damage as it heats up the molding and insulation. And resistance lowers the voltage through the system, increasing the electromechanical stress on the components.  (And as I said before, that's the limit of my knowledge.)

Yes, contact cleaner can help.  I have to clean the contacts on my macbook every few months, too.  Then it suddenly operates much cooler - less heat in the plug, less work that the capacitors have to do to stabilize internal voltages.  ...But it's best to avoid the wear if you can at all.  The higher voltage, lower amperage would help as well.

-Crissa

[Richard230]

Contact cleaner on the C14 inlet (and occasionally the C13 plug) is a good thing to apply now and then.

I've used 208V/240V AC on the inlet and, while the warming is certainly lower, I don't think it changes the impact of inrush. Whether that contributes to component wear, I couldn't say, since the majority of unsourced but inferred speculation about charger vulnerability has been CAN-side.

Thanks for the tip. I have never cleaned the power cord or inlet contacts before. I will start doing this occasionally from now on. It couldn't hurt.

[RonIL]

The chargers are DEFECTIVE, bad design.  I need a 3RD and know others that are also on their 3RD or 4TH charger.  They are no IP65 as claimed and should be IP67 or IP68.  Every time it rains owners are posting on our local forum that there are problems and than inevitably someone posts that their charger is shorting or stopped charging past 70-80%.