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[Richard230]

Bad news for me this afternoon I believe.  I had my Zero plugged in and charging after going for a ride today. After charging fine from 44% SOC to 69% SOC, the bike stopped charging, the screen went blank and I smelled an odd smell, kind of like garlic in my garage.  Trying to plug it in again gives no results. The bike turns on normally with the key and the Zero app shows no warnings. Does this sound like a burned out charger?  So far my only experience with a charger failure was on my 2014 S when it slowly refused to charge to 100% over a period of a couple of years. This is the first time I have experienced what I guess is a complete charger failure since my first 2009 Electric Motosport GPR-S. Does it sound like a replacement charger is in my future?   

[Crissa]

Garlic? O-o

-Crissa

[DonTom]

After charging fine from 44% SOC to 69% SOC, the bike stopped charging, the screen went blank and I smelled an odd smell, kind of like garlic in my garage.  Trying to plug it in again gives no results. The bike turns on normally with the key and the Zero app shows no warnings. Does this sound like a burned out charger?

Yes, very much so. Perhaps an electrolytic  capacitor exploded inside the charger and they smell like hell and normally cause a short circuit that blows out other components.

A Delta Q-charger should still work fine if you turn on the key for a few seconds to close the contactor. Then you can take the key out. You will have an alarm, but you can ignore it and charge at 1 KW (the OBC is 1.4 KW), so the Delta Q-charger will be a little slower.

-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[Richard230]

Unfortunately, I never invested in a Delta Q. But I do have experience replacing the stock charger, so it is off to AF1 to buy another one. After all, it is only money. Still, I really wish that Zero could do something to improve the reliability of their stock on-board chargers. These things have been failing since at least 2014, with multiple revisions to the charger package. All these revisions to the model numbers don't seem to help much. I really think it is about time Zero seeks out another vendor. 

[DonTom]

Unfortunately, I never invested in a Delta Q. But I do have experience replacing the stock charger, so it is off to AF1 to buy another one. After all, it is only money. Still, I really wish that Zero could do something to improve the reliability of their stock on-board chargers. These things have been failing since at least 2014, with multiple revisions to the charger package. All these revisions to the model numbers don't seem to help much. I really think it is about time Zero seeks out another vendor. 

The main problem probably is that it is  quite difficult to design a 1.4 KW OBC  that is small and light, especially when not cooled by a fan or whatever. The Delta Q chargers are in a bigger package, weight more and are only 1.0 KW. Therefore the Delta-Qs are much more reliable than the OBC.  The first thing they could do to design a  more reliable  OBC is to lower the charge rate in the same size package. IOW, there will be trade-offs in an attempt to make them more reliable, such as taking more time to charge or a larger heavier package, etc.

I would expect the OBC to be the weak point on a Zero because it runs at high power, is not cooled  while charging and that means there will be a lot heat. The heat slowly cooks the guts of the OBC.

If they could only increase the efficiently so the OBC  won't get as hot internally. But that probably won't be by much during  our lifetimes.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

The OBC is already very efficient, more than some of the best computer power supplies out there (92/94% at full load). Heat output is only around 100W which would be very easy to actively cool and even passively cooling shouldn't be too difficult. I find it hard to believe that it's the heat that's killing chargers unless it's exacerbating a pre-existing fault, other components that are either defective or just inadequate.

[DonTom]

The OBC is already very efficient, more than some of the best computer power supplies out there (92/94% at full load). Heat output is only around 100W

Yes, that was why I said it is unlikely to get much more efficient during our lifetimes. Not much room for major improvements.

which would be very easy to actively cool and even passively cooling shouldn't be too difficult. I find it hard to believe that it's the heat that's killing chargers unless it's exacerbating a pre-existing fault, other components that are either defective or just inadequate.

Heat, by far, is the major problem with electronics that  operate at higher powers.

Making that "adequate" usually means larger. That is an issue on a motorcycle. I assume it already has a lot of passive cooling inside, such as heat sinks on the hottest components. Active cooling would be better, but that too has issues. Such as the AC charger fan that just crapped out in my Energica.  The very first thing to fail in my Energica.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

Yes it's going to get warm and yes more heat is worse than less heat, but that doesn't mean that's what's killing them. Every single electronic device gets hot. By adequate I mean components that are rated for the temperature inside the charger, such as caps (higher rated caps don't need to be larger), and can operate within spec at those temperatures.

[Richard230]

Do the new SR/F and SR/S models use the same charger? If so, I would think that it is only a matter of time before their owners start needing to order replacement chargers.    However, these things seem to be able to last past the 2-year warranty period, so maybe there is no incentive for Zero or their supplier (Calex?) to make any changes.   

Anyway, other than the cost, the only tough part about replacing the charger is reconnecting the connector at the right side of the bike.  That thing is a real bitch to get a hold of securely enough to be able to force in the plug from the new charger, due to the fact that it is really jammed into the works.

[DonTom]

Yes it's going to get warm and yes more heat is worse than less heat, but that doesn't mean that's what's killing them. Every single electronic device gets hot. By adequate I mean components that are rated for the temperature inside the charger, such as caps (higher rated caps don't need to be larger), and can operate within spec at those temperatures.

Many items used within spec eventually fail. We don't live in a perfect world. I assume you know a good capacitor used at spec NEVER gets warm internally. Good capacitors cannot dissipate any  heat at all. If they get warm, it's from the stuff around them or they have been shorted internally.

And of course not every failure is from heat. A strong ripple can destroy most electrolytic capacitors such as if a rectifier diode shorts out from  a surge or whatever.

The only way to know for sure what happened is to get inside of it. But in such switching power supplies, the norm is when one part shorts out is it takes several other parts with it.

But sure, some components  are better quality than others, but often  the better ones are larger.

The norm is to have components  run at 20% less of their maximum values. But there are still failures.

I expect no matter who makes those OBC's in that size package, there will still be failures.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

Do the new SR/F and SR/S models use the same charger?

No. Your SR  has a 1.4 KW charger. The SR/F  and SR/S (standard models) use a 3.0 KW charger. The Premium SR/F and SR/S use a  6.0 KW charger.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

Unfortunately, I never invested in a Delta Q.

I  rarely will charge my Zeros with only the OBC. The idea is to use it as little as possible.

IMO, a Delta Q charger kinda pays for itself. It is much more reliable (has anybody here even heard of one failing)?

You can use it alone to charge your bike to save the usage of your OBC. Or reduce the time the OBC is on by also using the OBC when you're more in a hurry. I always connect up a couple of Delta Q's even when I have all night to charge. I don't want the OBC to be on much longer than really necessary. I normally use the OBC with the QCs, but it would probably be better if I didn't use the OBC at all until I really had to.

So far, no charger problems, I have more than  10,000 miles on each of my Zeros.

The only problems I have had so far, was a bad battery in my DS and an open  ABS sensor  on the front wheel of my SR.

BTW, those new brake pads you told me about are perfect! No trace of any squeak any more, no matter how I brake.


-Don- in hot (91° F.)  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[Richard230]

Do the new SR/F and SR/S models use the same charger?

No. Your SR  has a 1.4 KW charger. The SR/F  and SR/S (standard models) use a 3.0 KW charger. The Premium SR/F and SR/S use a  6.0 KW charger.

-Don-  Reno, NV

So you can not charge your SR/F or SR/S using a 120V home outlet? I would not have expected Zero designing a bike that did not have an L1 charging option. 

[TheRan]

They come with a granny charger (not really a charger but an adapter), like a lot of electric cars.

[Richard230]

They come with a granny charger (not really a charger but an adapter), like a lot of electric cars.

I hate to admit it but I don't know what a "granny charger" is. Is it a device that plugs into a US 120V outlet and converts it to something that the on-board 3 KW charger can use, like the standard S charger that will accept both 120V and 240V, but still charge at 13 amps? U.S. home power outlets are typically limited to 15-20 amps before blowing a circuit breaker.

Or is a granny charger a separate off-board charger like a Delta-Q that you would have to carry with you if you wanted to charge from a home outlet?