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[NEW2elec]

From Business

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/harley-davidsons-rewire-plan-starts-195629590.html

[DonTom]

From Business

The LW needs the rewire more than the company.

IMO, what they really need to do is to rewire the livewire's charging system. Especially their useless Level Two, which is really only good for home charging overnight.

Put a 6KW AC  charger in there and that would make it seem like a real 30K$ bike. Perhaps they could also let it charge a bit faster on L3.

And there are a few other things they could do, such as add in a reverse.

IMO, a 30K$ bike should have more than just the name "Harley" going for it.

The rest of the bike seems quite decent, but it doesn't fit me all that well.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Sure, they can add another twenty pounds and a cubic foot somewhere on that bike, Don.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Sure, they can add another twenty pounds and a cubic foot somewhere on that bike, Don.

Yeah, I realize it could be a design issue. But a 1.5 KW L2 charger on a 30K$ bike is unacceptable, IMO.

Notice Zero put 6 KW L2 chargers in their premium models of SR/F and SR/S.

BTW, I really like the SR/S they have here at the Reno Eurocycles. It comes stock with a centerstand (the only electric bike to have such?) and also comes with their added luggage.

I would be tempted to buy it if it were the premium model with the 6 KW charger, as if I really need to own 11 motorcycles.

But there is a simple formula for how many motorcycles I  should own. It's N+1, where "N" is the number of motorcycles I  currently own.    

-Don- Reno, NV

[JaimeC]

So far no one who owns one seems to care about the Energica SS9 which does weigh 20 pounds more than the Livewire but also has reverse and 3kW L2 capability.  Plus, you can equip the SS9 with locking hard luggage, something you can't do with the more expensive Harley.

[Crissa]

If DC chargers become as common as gas pumps, Harley's design would be perfect.  The L2 chargers are really for urban or rural extremes, cheap batteries, and micro transport; or big batteries for home charging.   While the CCS is currently the way to go for suburban, freeway, road trip use.  You have the granny charger for when you go home and put away at night, and DC for when you go on road trips.  Save the weight and complexity.

The design Harley came up with to basically skip L2 is perfect for a motorcycle... Five to ten years from now when DC chargers are everywhere.  (Though their CCS is a bit slower than probably optimal.)

-Crissa

[shayan]

Sure, they can add another twenty pounds and a cubic foot somewhere on that bike, Don.

Yeah, I realize it could be a design issue. But a 1.5 KW L2 charger on a 30K$ bike is unacceptable, IMO.

Notice Zero put 6 KW L2 chargers in their premium models of SR/F and SR/S.

BTW, I really like the SR/S they have here at the Reno Eurocycles. It comes stock with a centerstand (the only electric bike to have such?) and also comes with their added luggage.

I would be tempted to buy it if it were the premium model with the 6 KW charger, as if I really need to own 11 motorcycles.

But there is a simple formula for how many motorcycles I  should own. It's N+1, where "N" is the number of motorcycles I  currently own.    

-Don- Reno, NV

If I were you, I would just trade in the SR for the SR/S and get the 12kW charging capability (or 6kW + powertank). That would make for a great bike!

[DonTom]

So far no one who owns one seems to care about the Energica SS9 which does weigh 20 pounds more than the Livewire but also has reverse and 3kW L2 capability.  Plus, you can equip the SS9 with locking hard luggage, something you can't do with the more expensive Harley.

One advantage of the LW is there are probably more dealers, even though not all HD shops will deal with the LW.

And I am not even sure about that, as in some areas, such as Tucson, AZ there is a Zero dealer, but no LW dealer. Not all that many HD shops deal with the LW.

I wonder how many buy the LW just because they like the name "Harley".  Names mean nothing to me, either I like the model or I don't. And I don't care for the charging system on the LW. I also don't like no reverse.  IMO, a 30K$ bike should have more going for it than the name "Harley".

And I wish they would start putting on centerstands on electric bikes. Or be able to at least add such.  But I guess they have started that with the Zero SR/S.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

If DC chargers become as common as gas pumps, Harley's design would be perfect.  The L2 chargers are really for urban or rural extremes, cheap batteries, and micro transport; or big batteries for home charging.   While the CCS is currently the way to go for suburban, freeway, road trip use.  You have the granny charger for when you go home and put away at night, and DC for when you go on road trips.  Save the weight and complexity.

The design Harley came up with to basically skip L2 is perfect for a motorcycle... Five to ten years from now when DC chargers are everywhere.  (Though their CCS is a bit slower than probably optimal.)

-Crissa

Level 3 charging should only be used when necessary on a motorcycle battery. It's tough on the batteries. Perhaps less so on the LW because it uses a slower charge rate even on L3, especially when compared to Energica's non-plus models.

There will probably always be places where 240 VAC is available, but no DC charging.  So reasonable AC charging will probably always be important.

Besides all that, what happens after my lifetime doesn't count!

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

If I were you, I would just trade in the SR for the SR/S and get the 12kW charging capability (or 6kW + powertank). That would make for a great bike!

Where in the USA can I charge at 12 KW from a J-1772? Most J-1772 charge stations are only capable of around 7 KW, some only around 5.5 KW or so.

The 12 KW is mainly for Europe and would be a waste here in the USA.

It would make more sense to get the 3 KW model if the charge tank is going to be added. But it would make even more sense to get the premium model and then add the power tank.

I now charge my 2017 SR at 6.3 KWs while one the road,  but I bring a couple of external Elcon 2.5 KW chargers with me to do that. At home, I have charged my 2017 SR at 8.4 KW, by adding in a couple of Delta Q chargers, but that is too much to carry on the road for  only ~30% less charge time.

-Don- Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Seems like the SR/S would just be a straight up swap and more convenient for you than the old SR.  And you have the DS with the new battery for your S-platform use.

Anyhow, this is about the Harley.  And I can see why they did what they did.  It's a compromise, as everything is.  Unless you get an Energica, and then you're compromising on weight and skill level.

-Crissa

[shayan]

If I were you, I would just trade in the SR for the SR/S and get the 12kW charging capability (or 6kW + powertank). That would make for a great bike!

Where in the USA can I charge at 12 KW from a J-1772? Most J-1772 charge stations are only capable of around 7 KW, some only around 5.5 KW or so.

The 12 KW is mainly for Europe and would be a waste here in the USA.

I would make more sense to get the 3 KW model if the charge tank is going to be added. But it would make even more sense to get the premium model and then add the power tank.

I now charge my 2017 SR at 6.3 KWs while one the road,  but I bring a couple of external Elcon 2.5 KW chargers with me to do that. At home, I have charged my 2017 SR at 8.4 KW, by adding in a couple of Delta Q chargers, but that is too much to carry on the road for  only ~30% less charge time.

-Don- Reno, NV

True the only way to get 12kW of charging right now is through tesla destination chargers. So the premium plus PT would make sense. FWIW for S platform bikes with the chargetank, you can get upto 70A by dubJ'ing chargetank and the onboard 1.3kW charger. That way you do not have to carry any extra chargers with you and still get around 7.3-7.5kW of charging and thats what i do most of the times!

Seems like the SR/S would just be a straight up swap and more convenient for you than the old SR.  And you have the DS with the new battery for your S-platform use.

Anyhow, this is about the Harley.  And I can see why they did what they did.  It's a compromise, as everything is.  Unless you get an Energica, and then you're compromising on weight and skill level.

-Crissa

I would agree on this. For 30k, it would have to provide all optimal charging options or give a huge range compared to competitors and unfortunately it has neither. So its a bike in some sort of a different class.

[DonTom]

True the only way to get 12kW of charging right now is through tesla destination chargers. So the premium plus PT would make sense.

Then you need a 12 KW Tesla Tap and I don't think such is made. I think they only go up to 40 amps. 240 VAC times 40Amps=9,600 watts. Just right for the 3KW with a 6 KW charge tank.

Also, by far, most Tesla destination chargers are private, such as when staying at some motels. The only place I have seen them open to the public is at the Recharge Restaurant, near where the Tesla batteries are made. I have charged there  on my Energica.

You can see me and my bike here.

With the Tesla Tap, I can also charge my SR there. I assume a  LW with the Tesla-Tap can also charge there.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[shayan]

Here is one with 50Amps: http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=99
This should give ~12kW at 240 VAC. I bought this one, but cannot test its full 12kW capacity on my Zero S obviously.

[DonTom]

Here is one with 50Amps: http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=99
This should give ~12kW at 240 VAC. I bought this one, but cannot test its full 12kW capacity on my Zero S obviously.

I just now purchased one form there also, yet it will probably be quite a while before I need one for 50 amps (12,000 watts).  My Tesla Wall Connectors are good  for 48 amps (11,520 watts).

TeslaTap 50 AMP - HIGH POWER   TeslaTap 50 AMP - HIGH POWER   1   $189.95   $189.95
Sub-Total:   $189.95
Priority Mail Express 2-Day:   $39.55
Total:   $229.50   

I will soon own four Tesla Taps, but only this one is rated for 50 amps.

I can charge two bikes at the same time from it and easily get up to the 48 amp capacity.

I have my Energica set up so I can charge from 120 VAC as well as 240 VAC sockets as well as a Tesla Destination charger while on the road.  I had to modify a granny cable to do all this and make it light and small to take with me.

One of these days they will make this stuff small for motorcycles but for now, I guess we have to modify our own to carry with us. I keep all my charging stuff in one side bag, so I can charge anywhere I can find AC (or DC CCS).

I don't feel too bad about this info. being in the LW section,  because some LW owners may have a need for such as well.


-Don-  Reno, NV