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[MVetter]

It's a damn good bike.



Please let me know what you think. We had a lot of fun making this and goof around a but I think it has good content.

[Brammofan]

Great fun to watch. Thanks, gentlemen.

[DonTom]

It's a damn good bike.

Would you trade your Energica straight across for a new LW?

I wouldn't.

While the LW  is a very well built bike, looks great, it's not for me.

My biggest complaint is the slow J-1772 charging. Only 1.5KW charging? On a 30K$ bike?  Are they  kidding?

In fact, I even wish my Energica had better than 3 KW from J-1772. I would like 6 KW.

The HD doesn't even charge all that fast on CCS. Isn't it only 15 KW? 

And I find the Harley shop's CCS chargers can only do around there as well--but I have no complaints there, as they are free for me to use with my Energica.

The Harley has no reverse. No slow forward.

And it's not a comfy bike to me.

And I don't consider it to be a good thing for the power to NOT decrease near the end of the charge. Let it be noticeable and give a bit more range.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

The HD doesn't even charge all that fast on CCS. Isn't it only 15 KW? 

We cut out a bunch of charging algorithm talk because the video was already getting long, but it's actually a lot more complex than you think. From 0-38% the LiveWire will charge up to 21kW. Then it does a little dip to 18kW to the mid 40s. Then it drops to 15kW all the way until 78%. From there it drops to 8kW.

What this means is a dead bike will get ~80% in ~40 minutes. As I mentioned in the video, I could live with that.

[MikeL]

We cut out a bunch of charging algorithm talk because the video was already getting long, but it's actually a lot more complex than you think. From 0-38% the LiveWire will charge up to 21kW. Then it does a little dip to 18kW to the mid 40s. Then it drops to 15kW all the way until 78%. From there it drops to 8kW.

What this means is a dead bike will get ~80% in ~40 minutes. As I mentioned in the video, I could live with that.

Great review, do you think they did that as a way to protect the battery? I'm curious if you guys plan to do an in depth review of Zero's and Energica's top bikes as well?

[DonTom]

We cut out a bunch of charging algorithm talk because the video was already getting long, but it's actually a lot more complex than you think. From 0-38% the LiveWire will charge up to 21kW. Then it does a little dip to 18kW to the mid 40s. Then it drops to 15kW all the way until 78%. From there it drops to 8kW.

What this means is a dead bike will get ~80% in ~40 minutes. As I mentioned in the video, I could live with that.

I wish they would rate charging in MPH of charge, as Tesla does. That is really the most fair way to do it, when a battery twice the size takes twice as long to charge, but is  for the exact same range gain per minute of charge.

So in MPH of charge, how would you say the LW compares to the Energica in CCS charging? That is what really counts more than all the technical BS-- but I do appropriate it, because I had no idea that the LW's charging varied that much.

BTW, do you know how much a Harley charge station can handle? Can it do the 21 KW with the LW connected?   I never could get above 15 KW with my Energica at a Harley charge station and 12 KWH is more of the norm. At other charge stations, I am often charging above 25 KW.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Yeah, but are you counting freeway miles or town miles?  :/

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Yeah, but are you counting freeway miles or town miles?  :/

-Crissa

Easy enough to convert. Just mention any speed. Need two different MPHs in that spec!

I figure about half the range for each time the speed is doubled.

I like to say for electric bikes, "if you're in a big hurry, ride very slow!"

At least for any distance, where a recharge is necessary.

Charging takes more time than can be gained by speed. Even with most fast charging, when it comes to motorcycles.

Tesla SuperChargers are much different story.  BTW, in their specs, 65 MPH is assumed. My 310 mile range is really above 400 miles at 38 MPH, where Telsa gets the very best range.

I wish the electric bike specs  would do the same and use MPH instead of the city and freeway nonsense.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Ugh, no, it's not 'easy enough' to convert from 60 Whm to 100 Whm x-x

-Crissa

[Electric Cowboy]

Ideally we will be doing this for all the manufacturers and models.

Morgan and I are tired of reading or watching videos that have the wrong information. Skipping topics and missing information is one thing, but all the people who said this bike wouldn't even do a hundred miles an hour where just wrong. Neither Morgan nor I wanted to like it because of the history, mission motors, Alta ...

But, they did a damn good job. We're just kind of tired of people putting bs out there

[DonTom]

Ugh, no, it's not 'easy enough' to convert from 60 Whm to 100 Whm x-x

-Crissa

Use my simple formula. Double the speed and get around half the range. That will be close enough for your Zero as well as mine. Or for the LW.

But  with Energizer's new  21.5 KWH battery. There,  double the speed and get around one third the range.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Apriliarsv]

If someone was nice enough to let me borrow their bike. The last thing I would do is run the battery below 20%. Even if they said it was ok.

[DonTom]

If someone was nice enough to let me borrow their bike. The last thing I would do is run the battery below 20%. Even if they said it was ok.

I am no battery expert, but I assume as long as you recharge it ASAP, all will be okay, even if ran down to 0% SOC.

In fact, Energica RECOMMENDS to go to 0% SOC once in a while just to re-calibrate. But I don't know what HD recommends with the LW.   But in either case the idea is to not leave it  discharged for long. IIRC, Zero will void the battery warranty if left for 24 hours near fully discharged.  But if  recharged ASAP (well before 24 hours) it shouldn't hurt anything.

I assume the LW battery will be similar and a deep discharge to 0 SOC once in a while will not hurt anything as long as recharged ASAP.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[ultrarnr]

We also need to keep in mind that the state of charge that the BMS is telling you is not the true state of charge. Just because you can't go anymore doesn't mean your battery is actually dead, it just means you have reached the lowest state of charge that the BMS will allow the battery to go. The only electric motorcycle I know of that you can actually completely drain the battery on is the military version of the Zero FX. There is a special switch that can allow you full access to the battery. Bottom line no one cares about a battery warranty when you are getting shot at. All of this applies to the top end as well. I think Tesla pushes the limit on the top end which is why they don't recommend charging to 100% unless you are going on a long trip shortly after charging to full. No question range helps sell EVs.

[Crissa]

The Lightning that was reviewed did not yet have a BMS that would shut the bike down, either.

And there are some situations in which an electric bike can get stuck 'on', but that's usually a mainboard or battery management failure.

-Crissa