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[Crissa]

The twenty cents are deducted from the purchase not the amount being spent.

Because a 20¢ coupon is still 20 cents you get to spend (if you regen.)  So the total you can 'spend' at the store is $1.20.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

His interpretation will be that you only spent 80 cents on the first purchase, then 20 cents in the form of the coupon. In a way he wouldn't be wrong, if you hand someone a $10 note for a $1 purchase and get $9 back in change you haven't then spent $10. You instead need to look at how much money changes hand, in the analogy the giving and receiving of money is the expending and regenerating of energy.

Off topic, do your yankee keyboards have a cent sign on them?

[mistasam]

Yep!  Thanks Crissa 

Spending $10 and getting a dollar back, in this case, doesn't mean you only spent $9.  It wasn't a 9kWh hill.

You spent $10 and now have another $1 to spend.  Total spent at the end of the day is $11.

[DonTom]

yep!  Thanks Crissa 

Spending $10 and getting a dollar back, in this case, doesn't mean you only spent $9.  It wasn't a 9kWh hill.

You spent $10 and now have another $1 to spend.  Total spent at the end of the day is $11.

Not so much in reality, usually, where it counts.

I have noticed even going down hill takes some energy. The electric bikes coast very purely even at no regen at all. Especially Zeros. More regen just makes it coast even slower. Big waste of energy if we have to make up for it to speed the bike back up from before the slowdown--even if going downhill.

We come out at a loss if we have to regain the same speed to  make up for the drop in speed caused by poor coasting (or regen).

Where regen really helps is when we MUST slow down or MUST stop. When we have no choice, get as much charge  back in the battery as possible.

I have gone down some very long steep hills, such as Mt. Rose south of Reno, going east. Many miles all down hill.  I always have less SOC on the bottom of the hill than I did at the summit. No matter what regen settings I use.

The real gain is in getting more range while going down hill, and the times we need to slow down for curves or whatever.

IMO, they could make a big improvement in down hill range if they would just let the bike coast better even when with no regen at all.

Perhaps somebody needs to find a way that will disconnect the back wheel from the motor completely and really let it coast. Then it will use NO battery going down hill. Especially Zeros. The Energica coasts a lot better with no regen. Perhaps because of the extra weight? Perhaps the gear box?  I really don't know, I only know it coasts better than my Zeros.

The only use I see for regen is when we MUST slow down and stay at the new slow speed or when we MUST stop.

But if we have to make up for the speed lost by poor coasting, (regardless of the regen settings, even when off totally)  it's wasting more energy than we have gained. Even while down a long steep hill.

Same as trying to gain by going up and then down the same hill. Better range overall on a level road. Also better range at a steady speed. And keeping a steady speed is exactly what Zero recommends for best range and I agree. And at a steady speed, regen does nothing at all.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[princec]

Your old physics professors would be having a complete fit if they read some of the arguments in here.

Curt is absolutely correct! I don't know how this bit of basic education eludes everybody.

Cas

[Crissa]

I don't know any physics professors who wouldn't understand that regen allows for more energy to be spent than was initially available.

If that were true, the truck that carries a load down the hill wouldn't be able to recharge its battery for the drive back up it.  Heck, we wouldn't be able to recharge our batteries at all!

-Crissa

And no, if you have a $1 to spend on gumballs, and have a coupon for 20¢ towards gumballs, you actually can buy $1.20 of gumballs, not $1 like without the coupon and certainly not 80¢.

[princec]

The mind boggles, it really does. I had never thought somebody would discover the secret to infinite energy in a motorcycle forum.

Cas

[NEW2elec]

It's really less about pulling more power out of the battery and more about pimping out that Z force motor to earn daddy some more juice.  You see it preforms a trick with a gravity John and it gives you 1 kWh for the effort. 
Which IS a little light but hey it's something.   

[TheRan]

The mind boggles, it really does. I had never thought somebody would discover the secret to infinite energy in a motorcycle forum.

Cas

Again, no one said anything about infinite energy. You need to spend some to regain some and you regain less than you spend, but you still have more energy available to spend compared to if you didn't have regen. If without regen you can spend 100% of the energy capacity of the battery then by using regen you must be able to spend more than the 100% capacity, it's pretty damn simple.

[enaef]

I have gone down some very long steep hills, such as Mt. Rose south of Reno, going east. Many miles all down hill.  I always have less SOC on the bottom of the hill than I did at the summit. No matter what regen settings I use.

With my Zero SR/F in Eco-Mode with twice 100% regen, on 7,7 km from 1033 m down to 637 m I gain about 5% SoC.
https://kurv.gr/chtSB

Similarly riding downhill the other side of the hill/mountain. Observed three times ...

[Electrobike]

@curt and @princec: You are the only ones here talking about free magical energy coming from nowhere

mistasam explained very nicely the usage of the kinetic movement to create electricity with the gravity + slope + wheel + turbine motor

Just like wind turbines produce electricity with wind + blade + electric turbine (not magically coming from nowhere)

, not reused.

You are aware that you just contradict youself here ?
How can you transform energy if it can't be reused ? (But maybe you were talking about 'electricity' not 'energy')

Energy is converted between forms

That's exactly right !
electricty from battery => transformed to mecanical movement of the turbine
mecanical movement of the turbine => transformed to rotating the wheel
rotating the wheel  => transformed to movement going uphill
Thats the first chain of conversion where the whole entity 'bike' looses energy (but it also gained some gravitational potential energy due to earth gravity and bike mass)

The second chain of conversion is as follow :
movement going downhill => transformed to rotation of the wheel
rotation of the wheel => transformed to mecanical movement of the turbine
mecanical movement of the turbine => transformed to electricity 'stored' to the battery (it's not precise 'cause you can't really store electricity, but that how general public understand it)

In those 2 chains of conversion, energy is lost for the whole 'bike' entity in heat, light, various resistances and other mechanisms, that's why downhill you only get back a fraction of the energy

If you don't understand all that, just go learn how electricity is produced, because you are the ones with a lack of knowledge on the matter
Or maybe you just want to play picky on words
Or maybe you just want to troll, which in that case, I would say : don't feed the troll


My 20 cents on the subject (which didn't cost 1$ initially )

[DonTom]

With my Zero SR/F in Eco-Mode with twice 100% regen, on 7,7 km from 1033 m down to 637 m I gain about 5% SoC.
https://kurv.gr/chtSB

Similarly riding downhill the other side of the hill/mountain. Observed three times ...

Sure, I assume it can happen if the bike is heavy enough and the down hill is steep enough.  I figure the heavier the bike, the better for regen, but in the long run, on the average roads, more is lost than gained with more weight.

The SR/F probably gains more from Regen than the lighter zeros.

While I have seen my SOC gain a point or two from going downhill, it was always while slowing down. And that is lost when I regain to the original speed--and then some.

Of course it is better to have regen than to not have it overall, but the only gain I have seen is when slowing down, even when going downhill. That's great, if we don't have to get back up to the original speed again, even while going down hill.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

Your old physics professors would be having a complete fit if they read some of the arguments in here.

Plese explain where.

Curt is absolutely correct! I don't know how this bit of basic education eludes everybody.

What did I say that was different?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[enaef]

I haven't used an older Zero. However, a friend fo mine, riding a DSR, told me that his regen is much poorer than the one on the SR/F.
The backside of a mountain or steep hill I try to ride with full regen. In the example I used I do not need the brakes ones, if I ride deffensively.

And yes, of course - regen is not a sort of a perpetuum mobile ... - it only makes sense if I have to slow down and cannot use the kinetic energy of the bike for gaining a streched distance.

[TheRan]

That makes sense as the regen is a percentage of the output power, if Zero have kept that percentage the same (supposedly up to 10% in the older models). Thus even with older models a 14.4 should have more regen than a 7.2 (although perhaps less noticeable due to the weight difference) and an R model should have even more regen than the non-R.