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[mistasam]

Annnnd fight!

[ESokoloff]

Annnnd fight!

...........

Not from me.
I'ld say you nailed it

(At least for current (less next gen.) Zero models).

[Crissa]

Yeah!

Diagrams are often worth thousands of words

-Crissa

[mistasam]

Bwahaha thanks! 

[princec]

That is truly a bonkers effort to go to! And who said being stuck at home in isolation would have us all bored...

Cas

[mistasam]

That is truly a bonkers effort to go to! And who said being stuck at home in isolation would have us all bored...

Thanks!  Yep, can't wait to get away from my computer and ride! 

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Nice work; bit simple but hopefully effective. Where'd you get that Energica 3D model? (answering my own question: Hum3D, which also has a Zero model: https://hum3d.com/3d-models/energica-eva-2019/)

[mistasam]

Hum3D, which also has a Zero

Yeah!  I'm hoping to 3D scan a real Energica soon to get the scale right, and then model up some custom pieces for it 

[Curt]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrggggghh I didn't see this massive double-down coming.

But no, you only get to use the 10 kWh that's in a 10 kWh battery. Energy is converted between forms, not reused. The sum of energy in the system is monotonically decreasing, uphill or flat or downhill. The distance gain is from improved braking efficiency. The free energy illusion comes from counting energy flow in one direction only.

Drat, now I'm going to have to spend hours making an analogy video. Or I can just stop here!

[Crissa]

So you put 10KW into the battery, or 1/3 of a gallon of gas.

The bike consumes 10KW of energy.  The gas bike is out of energy.

But the bike with regen recovered 1 KW of energy.  So it gets to spend that, too.

So the electric bike spent 11 KW of energy.  The bike without regen spent only 10.

-Crissa

[Biff]

Good video, I think it explains it well.  I think the only way there could be some sort of fight over this is based on semantics, and what constitutes energy from a battery.
One person might say during that mountain ride example in the video, the net energy out of the battery was 10kWh  ( +10kWh up hill -1kWh downhill +1kWh on the flat  = net 10kWh)

Another person might say during that ride you got 11kWh from the battery (10kW up hill,  1kWh on the flat = 11kWh ), because that is what you get if you add up all the kWh's that you used during the ride.

And you would both be right.

Here is an interesting EV that never needs to be recharged with an electrical connection, I think it might even have big resistors to bleed off energy when its batteries are too full (to save its mechanical brakes)!
It does this by the nature of its purpose, and the terrain where it operates.  It uses energy to get up hill, where it is loaded with a heavy load of ore,  it then uses regenerative braking to go back down the hill slowly, recovering more energy than was needed to climb the hill, where it dumps its load to be processed.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1124478_world-s-largest-ev-never-has-to-be-recharged

-ryan

[Crissa]

It's filled with ore, which is its energy All that tasty potential energy.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

The free energy illusion comes from counting energy flow in one direction only.

No one is calling it free energy, it's just recapturing what would otherwise be wasted as heat. As Sam said in the video if you didn't actually need to brake coming down the hill you might end up going further by just keeping momentum gained from gravity, but in situations where you do need to slow down (which often happens with riding in real life) you do make a positive gain from regen.

If you want to make the argument that including the energy input from regen would amount to a net output of 10kW/h then why not include the 10kW/h that was originally put into the battery when it was charged at home before the journey for a net output of 0kW/h? How is regaining 1kW/h from regen any different to stopping off at a charging station instead, in terms of energy expended?

[Crissa]

How about this, Curt:

You have $1.  And you have a coupon for 20¢ back when you buy what you went to the store for.

How much money can you look to spend at the store?

-Crissa

[TheRan]

How about this, Curt:

You have $1.  And you have a coupon for 20¢ back when you buy what you went to the store for.

How much money can you look to spend at the store?

-Crissa

Bad wording Crissa, he's going to say you'd only be spending the original $1 and the 20 cent coupon is just deducted from the $1. Same would apply if they gave you a physical 20 cent coin (is that a nickel or a dime?) to spend again. Instead we could think about the value of the items purchased including with the coupon (analogous to work done with a certain amount of energy).