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[quixotic]

My 2013 only gets used in the summer months, so in the winter, it has been stored in a somewhat heated garage (perhaps down to freezing at times), and charged every 90 days or so (as per the manual).  But I've noticed that now it will only charge up to 8 bars on the speedo indicator (or the single red and double green lights on the battery indicators). I can leave it charging (via 110 volts), but at some point, it just wants to go to the "unbalanced" indicator (the 3 alternating flashing green lights).  Is the battery on its way out?  (The bike still seems just as responsive as it ever was).

Thanks in advance for any info.

[DonTom]

My 2013 only gets used in the summer months, so in the winter, it has been stored in a somewhat heated garage (perhaps down to freezing at times), and charged every 90 days or so (as per the manual).  But I've noticed that now it will only charge up to 8 bars on the speedo indicator (or the single red and double green lights on the battery indicators). I can leave it charging (via 110 volts), but at some point, it just wants to go to the "unbalanced" indicator (the 3 alternating flashing green lights).  Is the battery on its way out?  (The bike still seems just as responsive as it ever was).

Thanks in advance for any info.

Are you only using the OBC?  Your problem could be the charger or the battery. The best way to find out which is to see if it will fully charge with an external Delta Q  charger.

-Don-   Reno, NV

[Richard230]

My money is on the charger going bad.   

[TEV]

I also have a theory, that the BMS on the old Zero's need the charger to be plugged in all the time, otherwise the pack will go out of balance, and will take some charging/discharging cycles to get the pack back in balance. Again, this is my theory, but if is true for this instance too, then it will be the third case that I am aware of. So maybe this is why the ZERO didn't revised the charging instruction for the older models to match the SR/F and SR/S, because the older BMS wasn't designed for that.   

[quixotic]

Thanks All.  I suspect TEV might be correct.  (Don's reply, due to my ignorance, is close to Latin, and I'm wondering why Richard's suggestion about the charger might be the case if it can still charge up to 8 bars).

I think the manual is somewhat conflicted in that on one page, it states "the power pack may be charged...within 90 days if stored fully charged", and then the very next sentence states "Zero recommends you plug in your Zero after 7 days, even if fully charged."

I went for the 90 days option, since I had major issues with the spade connectors heating up dangerously a couple of years earlier (the plastic around the plug melted and stunk up the garage, and my wife freaked out about potentially burning down the garage).  I replaced the connectors with the most robust I could find, but the plug still gets very hot to touch.  Therefore, I thought that the less I had to charge the bike, the better.

Would I be advised to get a 240v system installed in the garage?  If so, is the cord/plug arrangement at the bike end still the same? 

Thanks.

[TEV]

I'm wondering why Richard's suggestion about the charger might be the case if it can still charge up to 8 bars).

There is a known issue with Zero having isolation faults, that, over time, will destroy the onboard chargers. It's begin with the charger not being able to charge to 100%, like won't charge more than 95%, then 90%, ...., and then at some point will either start tripping the house breaker or just not charging anymore.

[TEV]

Don's reply, due to my ignorance, is close to Latin

OBC= onboard charger = the charger that is installed on the motorcycle 

He is suggesting, in order to rule out a bad OBC ( onboard charger  ) , to try charging with an external charger, to see if the pack will charge to 100% with it.

[quixotic]

So it seems the Delta Q charger is the same as the Zero quick charger.  But I can't seem to find the latter on Zero's accessory page.  Also, the product link on zeromanual.com doesn't work: https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Zero_Quick_Charger
Do they still make and sell them?  Edit: Sorry, I see it now on their site (I initially thought it was just a range extender)  Edit on the edit: So on the canadian website, the unit is advertised as a range extender, but on the u.s. website, it's advertised as a charge tank for 6x faster charging.  And the units look identical.  Now I'm really confused.

Before that, I should've noted that for at least the last couple of years, I've gotten the "power pack unbalanced" signal from the green lights at the end of the charging sequence.  The manual says the solution is to charge the bike for 72 hours.  So I'll see if that makes a difference. 

I'd hate to have to deal with a kaput battery, since the nearest dealer is 1,000 km's away.
 

[TheRan]

You can't buy it off the Zero site, as far as I know you can get a Zero dealer to order it in for you or you can buy it from somewhere like AF1Racing or Hollywood Electrics. The Zero charger is a custom Delta Quiq, I think the only difference is in software.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The 2013 onboard charger is not the Calex charger, and it's managed by the CCU, not directly attached to the CANbus.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Onboard_Charger

The charger is a set of 4 (2s2p) Mean Well HLG320H-54A units.

Definitely give your battery a long slow charge to see whether the imbalance clears up. But also, use the mobile app to check the imbalance, then extract the logs and decode them to see a more detailed report. A BMS log will say how all the cells are behaving.

[quixotic]

The 2013 onboard charger is not the Calex charger, and it's managed by the CCU, not directly attached to the CANbus.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Onboard_Charger

The charger is a set of 4 (2s2p) Mean Well HLG320H-54A units.

Definitely give your battery a long slow charge to see whether the imbalance clears up. But also, use the mobile app to check the imbalance, then extract the logs and decode them to see a more detailed report. A BMS log will say how all the cells are behaving.

Thanks for that.  I don't quite follow it all, but I did manage to download the app, and get some info off of it.  Apparently, my cell balance is 5mv.  Is that good or bad?

The other indicators stated 87% charge (that's after leaving the bike plugged in for about 2.5 days), 10 amps, 1080 watts, 225 kwh used, 108v, and 52 charge cycles.  I'm not sure how much of that might be relevant. 

Do I use the app to extract the logs?  I thought I went through the whole menu system, but I don't recall seeing anything relating to logs. 

[Auriga]

Since your balance is good, I suspect your charger is going out. You could try charging with an off board charger and if it goes to 100, then you have a place to start.

[quixotic]

Since your balance is good, I suspect your charger is going out. You could try charging with an off board charger and if it goes to 100, then you have a place to start.

Sorry.  Disregard those numbers (I found out that I was actually in demo mode).  The actual numbers are 75% charged, 116v, cell balance of 313mv, 266 charge cycles, and 551 kwh.  I also managed to send myself a log file, but I have no idea how to open a bin file, and I suspect it'd all be latin to me anyway (it's attached if anyone can help me out).

[Auriga]

OK, that's actually a very bad balance. 
Logs can be decoded here, just upload the bin file you have:
https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/

It should give you a text file you can upload here.

With that balance, either the charger is going bad and the bike isn't appropriately charging to full or your battery is on the way out.
The best approach still might be to find an external charger and attempt to charge it, or take it to a dealer.

[quixotic]

OK, that's actually a very bad balance. 
Logs can be decoded here, just upload the bin file you have:
https://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/

It should give you a text file you can upload here.

With that balance, either the charger is going bad and the bike isn't appropriately charging to full or your battery is on the way out.
The best approach still might be to find an external charger and attempt to charge it, or take it to a dealer.

Well, I'm afraid it won't be going to a dealer any time soon, since the nearest one is 1,000 km's away.  I've now got the log in a txt file.  Is there any way to tell from it whether it's the charger or the battery?