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[scottwstevenson]

So... I suspect my 12V battery is now below a normal operating voltage (key on and the bike is dead).

It's garaged, always plugged in (not in storage mode), and ridden at least once a week. I don't see how under those circumstances the 12v lithium battery should EVER be low. The MBB and/or BMS should periodically wake and keep the 12V in good charge state.

I also doubt its the cold temps.. last winter the bike was also garaged, always plugged-in, and ridden weekly without issue. Points to a firmware issue I think.

Very frustrating on a commuter bike... who has time to deal with big firmware issues like this? Even if I get the 12v battery replaced the next one will discharge again!

Sorry if this is a "Captain Obvious" post, but did you try measuring current across each of the fuses in the panel to see if you could narrow down the source of a parasitic draw?...

If you did find some current flowing through one of those fuses that shouldn't be in a keyed off bike, a solution would be to pull that fuse and see if that fixes the issue, periodically checking the 12V battery (any fuse should do, I would imagine) to see if it's on still on a trajectory into the dead zone in in just a few days' time...

(Comparing keyed on vs. off amps through each fuse might yield some good info. https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Fuse_Block )

-S

[Richard230]

12V AGM batteries (in general) have left a bad taste in my mouth lately. During the past year I have bought two small 6 Ah 12V batteries for my KTM Duke and both have gone bad within just a few months. The one that came with the bike was made in India and the second one was made in China. Both failed to hold a charge more than a couple of days after being fully charged on a reliable battery maintainer. It is my belief that because they were sitting on a shelf (or on a boat) for many months before being placed into service without having been kept charged, it has affected their ability to hold a charge. Recently, I bought another Chinese-made AGM battery for the KTM for only $30 from Amazon and that battery came fully charged to 13.1 volts. It has been working perfectly for the past 6 months.

Perhaps Zero has managed to buy some cheap, poorly manufactured and stored batteries for their latest model bikes that use them to replace the likely more expensive DC-DC converter? 

[Fernando]

The 12V batteries on the SRF and SRS and the new SR are lithium (not traditional AGM etc).

As for parasitic drain…there are no accessories on the bike and I wasn’t about to troubleshoot drain when it was going to have to trailer to the dealer anyway.

Dealer replaced battery and states everything else is ok. Apparently some of these 12v batteries haven’t been lasting.

Still seems like a firmware issue to me as even newer bikes are all of a sudden struggling with this issue on the forum.

[Richard230]

The 12V batteries on the SRF and SRS and the new SR are lithium (not traditional AGM etc).

As for parasitic drain…there are no accessories on the bike and I wasn’t about to troubleshoot drain when it was going to have to trailer to the dealer anyway.

Dealer replaced battery and states everything else is ok. Apparently some of these 12v batteries haven’t been lasting.

Still seems like a firmware issue to me as even newer bikes are all of a sudden struggling with this issue on the forum.

That is odd. I have several 12V lithium motorcycle batteries in my ICE bikes and have never had a problem keeping them charged and healthy. I wonder what is going on?

(I have been switching from AGM batteries to name-brand and somewhat expensive lithium as my lead-acid batteries crap out. I am now down to one AGM in my KTM Duke. If that goes south, I will replace it with a lithium. The small lithium battery in my Royal Enfield has been going strong for the past 10 years.    )

[DonTom]

12V AGM batteries (in general) have left a bad taste in my mouth lately. During the past year I have bought two small 6 Ah 12V batteries for my KTM Duke and both have gone bad within just a few months. The one that came with the bike was made in India and the second one was made in China. Both failed to hold a charge more than a couple of days after being fully charged on a reliable battery maintainer. It is my belief that because they were sitting on a shelf (or on a boat) for many months before being placed into service without having been kept charged, it has affected their ability to hold a charge. Recently, I bought another Chinese-made AGM battery for the KTM for only $30 from Amazon and that battery came fully charged to 13.1 volts. It has been working perfectly for the past 6 months.

Perhaps Zero has managed to buy some cheap, poorly manufactured and stored batteries for their latest model bikes that use them to replace the likely more expensive DC-DC converter? 

See this chart.


Do not let a 12v AGM or lead acid battery get below 50% charged (12.0 volts) for any reason. Only measure the battery's voltage after more than 30 minutes of it doing nothing at all. Not being charged, not being used. Disconnected from everything for 30 minutes or more.  That is when the check its voltage.


It will recover if it's below 12V, if only done a few times, but it is very damaging to the battery. Never ask for more than 3 AH from a 6AH LA or AGM battery or it does damage faster. Each time it's done, you will have less AH left for the next time. You can get the full 6AH from a 6AH battery, but the next time you will only get around 5.8 AH, then 5.6 AM etc.


The nice thing about lith batteries is you can take them below 90% discharged and do no damage and still have near the same voltage as a fully charged LA or AGM.




-Don- OPCNM, AZ

[NetPro]

Here are the pictures from my dissected 12 V battery.
The white sticker on pic 1 is the only in the pack but each battery has one of the light green one seen in pic 2, with the same number at the top and a different one at the bottom (serial number).

This is a bare-bones battery: Nothing to balance the cells, protect them in case of overheating or monitor them, as far as I can tell.
I have not opened the cells themselves but doubt the electronics for the above would be inside the plastic pouch, but I could be wrong.

I am not a lithium battery guru but I feel Zero should have a battery with more advanced features, if nothing else, to make it last a bit longer and make them more reliable. After all, when the charge drops below the threshold, the bike is out of commission.

The fact that so many people have had this battery fail is proof that something was not engineered right: Maybe is the logic programed in the bike's firmware that is not maintaining them optimally but I, like many others, have nothing extra hooked up to the bike that could potentially cause early failures.

The shell is quite sturdy; good quality plastic 1/8 of an inch thick and the posts appear to be brass and are pretty heavy duty fora battery this size.
The wires are 10 AWG and the soldering was done very well. (Hard to tell by looking at pics 3 and 4 but I can tell you this is some of the best soldering I have seen for a while)

[TEV]

This is a bare-bones battery

The fact that so many people have had this battery fail is proof that something was not engineered right

The lack of a BMS, will explain why they're failing so often.

[NetPro]

This is a bare-bones battery

The fact that so many people have had this battery fail is proof that something was not engineered right

The lack of a BMS, will explain why they're failing so often.

Indeed it does!
I opened one cell just now to see if there was anything inside (a long shot but possible) to provide thermal protection or anything of the sort, but there isn't.

This battery is as basic as it gets, folks: 4 cells soldered together and sealed in a case, not a doggone thing else (other than the heater stuck to the outside) 

Shame on Zero!

[princec]

Er, why do you think there's no battery management going on? Of course there is! It's on the MBB or somewhere else.

Cas

[TEV]

Er, why do you think there's no battery management going on? Of course there is! It's on the MBB or somewhere else.

Cas

Nope, the management is at the cell level, so, you need wires from each of the 4 cells to go to the management system, and there are none.

[Mooseman]

This is such a PITA... my bike has been sitting in the garage since it got cold. Yesterday I checked the SoC and it was down to 37%. Since it was slightly above freezing the bike should've been able to charge but nothing happened. Oh wait, something did happen: I got an army of error messages, some of them telling me that the 12 V battery is low. Well that's helpful information, but why doesn't the bike charge it if it's low?

Anyway, so I took the 12 V battery inside and charged it for a while. AFAIK there is no information in the manual or on the battery itself what the max charge current should be or what the capacity is so I can figure out an appropriate charge current myself. Great job, Zero...

After I reconnected the 12 V battery, everything seemed normal except the main battery still wouldn't charge. I mean it sounds easy enough to do what the manual says, like "recharge to 60% when it's down to 30%" but alas, it is impossible while it's below 0 °C.

I don't have a heated garage so I had to take a calculated risk: I applied both brakes and opened throttle to a level that made me feel slightly uncomfortable. The idea was to run some current through the battery, hoping it would generate enough heat to allow for charging. Obviously that came with the risk of me draining the battery to 30% or less and still being unable to charge it. Luckily it all worked out. Charging started at 2.7 kW and eventually went up to the full 6 kW the bike can draw.

After I charged the battery to 90% I tried to apply the latest firmware update but ran into problems again. That's a whole different story though and I'm just going to read the many posts that deal with this situation instead of ranting about it here.

I love riding the bike but I'm getting pretty fed up with Zero as a company as well as my nearest dealership.

[DonTom]

AFAIK there is no information in the manual or on the battery itself what the max charge current should be or what the capacity is so I can figure out an appropriate charge current myself. Great job, Zero...

Just put it on a one-amp battery maintainer. The lower the charge current the better. 


-Don-  Reno, NV

[Mooseman]

AFAIK there is no information in the manual or on the battery itself what the max charge current should be or what the capacity is so I can figure out an appropriate charge current myself. Great job, Zero...

Just put it on a one-amp battery maintainer. The lower the charge current the better. 

Thanks Don, I might actually try something similar next winter season. I'll just take the 12 V battery and store it inside. That way I can monitor the voltage and recharge as necessary. As you mentioned, the charge current can be low, it won't matter. Yesterday it did matter though. The battery was already lower than it should be and I didn't want to spend days to recharge it since I also had to recharge the main battery while the temperature was above freezing.

I'm curious to see what will happen next winter. I'm planning on connecting the 12 V battery after about two months of inactivity to see how the main battery is doing. It should only discharge at an irrelevant rate with nothing connected to it. We'll see. Anything is better than having a bike stored in the cold with an almost empty battery and no way to charge it. I'll post the results here in about 12 months 

[NetPro]

What I would like to do is find a battery of the same technology (LifePO4) and same dimensions, with a BMS and replace the piece of junk.
As for the maintainer, when I get my bike back from the dealer, I plan to use a 24 hour timer and set it up to charge daily for an hour, maybe two, though, if I remember correctly, Zero recommends not doing that as it could interfere with the bike's electronics.
Maybe I will build an automatic switch, with a relay, that will disconnect the battery from the bike when being charged and restore the connection when the charger goes off.
Need to think about this and see if there is room for such a thing. Space is so tight on motorcycles.

[Auriga]

Pretty sure this is the Zero battery, obviously without branding.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/small-case/ag-401/

As ya'll have said, it does not have a BMS