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[didierm]

Zero could have at least installed a battery with BMS. With any problem, the original is scrap if it is below 10 volts.

If I understood well, the 12V battery is managed by the bike's main BMS (which isn't supposed to fail, I guess    ).
Adding a second BMS at the 12V level was probably considered an avoidable cost and superfluous (unless you'd like to report its big brother's failure via cellular, but what are the chances ?    ).

[Crissa]

I'm not sure it's allowed for a manufacturer to put a low voltage cutoff on the brake management, without the brakes defaulting to 'locked', either.  That's supposed to work down to the last drop.

The idea being that it exists when our main battery fails.  Which if the main battery fails, well, the 12v is more likely to fail, so the logic kinda escapes me but whatever

-Crissa

[centra12]

Don't think so complicated.

Shido offers its batteries with integrated BMS. Or even simpler, like BMW, where the 12 Volt battery only operates( DWA/Clock,Instruments) the ignition. No problem with the quiescent current and the 12 Volt power plug can be bridged.

I guess the battery used by Zero has about 2.0 Ah if at all. Even with the LED lighting an emergency lighting is not possible for long.

[stevenh]

I know someone had posted the replacement model number for the 12v batter on the SR/F, but I can't seem to find it.  I'd like to replace mine to give it a shot before going to the dealer.  Anyone got the info?

Thanks!

Steve

Quick update.  I have not had a chance to get back to the dealer or get a replacement myself yet.  I figured why not just leave it alone for a couple of months of riding after storage, and it seems that the battery recovered enough after lots of ride and recharge cycles to allow me to upgrade my firmware to 17 without issue (I was able to do so this morning with no under-voltage errors).  I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm good for now.

I wonder if the 12v batteries are just not being kept charged enough while in storage?

Steve

[Crissa]

That's a good thought, Steve.  Since the radios (for remote communication) also use the 12v battery, and radio usage could vary alot based upon storage location (the worse or inconsistent the cell network, the more times the radio transmits at a higher power to say 'hey') and this could easily multiple the battery usage beyond what estimate the software was designed around.

There are just alot of points at which the bike could use more power from the little battery between sleep cycles.  And sometimes batteries just suck.  This is why I have an isolated low-voltage cutoff on my car's battery, though that might be a bit bulky on a bike.

-Crissa

[stevenh]

The bike was in my basement with zero cell service all winter long.  I topped off the main battery a couple of times since the main battery drain was more than I would have expected (2-3% every couple of weeks).   Anyway, while it probably was not great for the Lithium battery, It's working fine now...

Steve

[DPsSRnSD]

The bike was in my basement with zero cell service all winter long.  I topped off the main battery a couple of times since the main battery drain was more than I would have expected (2-3% every couple of weeks).   Anyway, while it probably was not great for the Lithium battery, It's working fine now...

Steve

The ZeroNG app shows 12V battery voltage which might help me spot another developing problem. They really should charge for it. It's not useful with zero cell service, though. I also bought a 12V charger with a lithium setting, though a standard charger works with close monitoring. With my 12V battery recharged and since I added holes to keep the battery cover from collecting water, my bike has been normal since the March rainstorms.

[Crissa]

But how does the bike know it doesn't have cell service?

It doesn't.

So it keeps trying full power yells to the network and doesn't get any answers, so never turns down the radio power after the handshake.

-Crissa

[MyTH]

On Christmas day, there it was in my garage: a shiny new 2021 SR/S with a bow on it.  Wow!  Maybe someday, I'll get to ride it.

When I turned it on, the bike displayed Error Codes 27, 31, 33, and 43, along with a message about the 12V battery heater running and the voltage of the 12V battery being low.  It seems the dealer delivered the bike with the main drive battery charged to 97%, which perhaps isn't ideal for storage but should be able to keep the 12V battery charged for some time.  Let's face it, here in the Northeast with below-freezing temperatures and plenty of snow and ice, I probably won't ride much for a few months.

I tried to register the bike using the Zero app but kept getting an error message saying the unit was unrecognized.  (I guess the dealer forgot to tell Zero they sold it.)  I was, however, able to connect via Bluetooth and upgrade to the latest firmware.  Being concerned about some of the error messages, especially the one about the low voltage on the 12V battery, I left the bike sitting with the key in the ON position for about half an hour, then plugged it into a charging station for a few hours before using the Zero app to enable Storage Mode.

The manual gives conflicting advice as to whether the bike should be left plugged in while being stored.  So, I left it unplugged but checked back a week later.  Whoops -- totally dead!  Um, OK, how do I exit Storage Mode again?  Turn the key ON then OFF then ON again, while raising the kickstand and cycling the kill switch?  Nope,  nothing worked.  Eventually, I figured it was time to check the 12V battery and followed the instructions in the manual on removing it from under the seat.

When I first removed it, the voltage was 2.7V.  After an hour, it was up to 3.5V, and after a day, 6.5V -- all without any charging, just sitting in my basement.  Huh.  A note written with a marker on the 12V battery says it was new in September 2021, so this isn't the first time this brand new bike (built about a year ago but just sitting in a showroom) had such an issue.  I offered to bring the dead battery to the dealer, or let them use my garage to recharge or replace the battery, but they say Zero will only honor the warranty after bringing the whole bike to the dealer for service.

My situation sounds disturbingly similar to the one discussed earlier in this thread.  Maybe engaging Storage Mode was a mistake, or maybe it would have happened anyway.  I guess Zero has a problem with their firmware and their BMS where it just drains the 12V battery dead.  Only, neither I nor the dealer can update that particular firmware?  Moreover, Zero doesn't trust its customers or its dealers enough to honor a warranty claim without seeing pictures of the bike at the dealer being disassembled?

Oh, well.  Maybe Santa should have brought a LiveWire.  At least if my new SR/S spends 2.5 months at the dealer like the OP, it's a good time of year -- winter.

          - M

[Fernando]

I haven't been able to find the 12V battery voltage in the app... where is it?

Also, I suspect there must be an issue with the BMS or MBB logic that recharges the 12V and main battery. I've noticed if I have scheduled charging turned on and leave the bike plugged into the charger, the BMS will charge as scheduled at the next charging window but will then let the main battery (and 12V) sit to slowly discharge thereafter. The bike will not wake up to charge at the following charging windows (once a day). After a couple weeks the main battery will loose ~10% charge and the 12V will be low. Seems the solution is to key on and off once a week, OR unplug and replug the charger, OR disable scheduled charging.

In all our cases, seems like the MMB or BMS firmware for main and 12v battery charging needs some attention.

[Fernando]

So... I suspect my 12V battery is now below a normal operating voltage (key on and the bike is dead).

It's garaged, always plugged in (not in storage mode), and ridden at least once a week. I don't see how under those circumstances the 12v lithium battery should EVER be low. The MBB and/or BMS should periodically wake and keep the 12V in good charge state.

I also doubt its the cold temps.. last winter the bike was also garaged, always plugged-in, and ridden weekly without issue. Points to a firmware issue I think.

Very frustrating on a commuter bike... who has time to deal with big firmware issues like this? Even if I get the 12v battery replaced the next one will discharge again!

[Richard230]

Speaking of 12V batteries, I notice that the new BMW CE 04 electric scooter also uses a "secondary" 12V 5Ah battery. It does appear to be a trend.

[opengl]

I haven't been able to find the 12V battery voltage in the app... where is it?

You can view it in the third party zeroNG app:

[fredx]

So... I suspect my 12V battery is now below a normal operating voltage (key on and the bike is dead).

It's garaged, always plugged in (not in storage mode), and ridden at least once a week. I don't see how under those circumstances the 12v lithium battery should EVER be low. The MBB and/or BMS should periodically wake and keep the 12V in good charge state.

I also doubt its the cold temps.. last winter the bike was also garaged, always plugged-in, and ridden weekly without issue. Points to a firmware issue I think.

Very frustrating on a commuter bike... who has time to deal with big firmware issues like this? Even if I get the 12v battery replaced the next one will discharge again!

I've been having similar troubles.  I left my 2020 SR/F plugged in while I was away for a little under 1.5 months.  I returned to a totally dead bike.  Turning on the key did nothing.

I've encountered 12V issues with this bike before, so I knew where to find the 12V battery and check its voltage.  It was dead, at a bit over 2 volts.  I connected a Li-Ion charger, and brought it back to a full charge.  Keyed on the bike, and it all came back to life.  My only concern is that the 12V battery has been substantially degraded by sitting dead for a month or so.

I got a few 12V faults (code 27, I think?), and even a CEL since then.  We'll see where this goes.  The bike is only under warranty for another week or two.

 - Fred

[MyTH]

It's good to know I'm not alone in facing multiple error codes, difficulty with firmware upgrades and Bluetooth pairing, and especially the dead 12V battery issue.

I thought about charging the battery myself with a LifePO4 charger but rejected the idea for three reasons: I was concerned that the battery might have been permanently damaged by being so deeply discharged, I wanted to preserve warranty coverage, and I wanted to make sure Zero was aware of the serious firmware problem to increase the chances they will correct it.  From this forum, it's clear Zero owners are well aware of the problems.  Does the manufacturer realize how widespread these firmware and battery issues are?

         - M