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[Tom_Ruyter]

Whilst we are on this subject, i have a quick question regarding this line in the manual "During regular operation and when connected to a charging cable.".

Given I'm currently working from home for the foreseeable future and seeing as the zero's 12v is always maintaining the Cellular connection, if it ONLY charges the 12v riding around (not doing that for the foreseeable future), or when it's charging (again, sitting in garage at 80% is gonna take a while to drain to a point i need to charge it up), Does that mean that the 12v will slowly go flat?

If that's the case, is it worth plugging in the zero to "charge" even though it'll not need to and leave it plugged in over night so the BMS can charge the 12v every now and then without charging the main pack. This then seems to defeat the "hibernation" thing after a month of inactivity. I'm confused as to how to maintain it, during our currently lock down.

Anyone got any knowledge on the maintence of the 12v so it's not heading to the dealer the minute i need to use it again.

[TheRan]

Apparently the DC to DC converter is turned on periodically to maintain the charge of the 12v battery. Also if it's a typical motorcycle battery then I would imagine that the cellular components would use so little power that it's not going to drain it at a significant rate.

https://zeromanual.com/wiki/FST_Platform/12V_Battery

[Tom_Ruyter]

Cheers,

I'll try not to get paranoid about it's long term storage prospects then.

 

[stevenh]

I know someone had posted the replacement model number for the 12v batter on the SR/F, but I can't seem to find it.  I'd like to replace mine to give it a shot before going to the dealer.  Anyone got the info?

Thanks!

Steve

[remmie]

item 79 on pages 30 and 33 called with caption ZEV0074 Electrical   : 79    46-08245    12V System Battery with heater    1

https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=3362&description=2020+Zero+SR%2FF+Spare+Parts+Catalog

Unfortunately no info on AF1 regarding the price

[didierm]

While I would have been perfectly able to change the defunct battery myself (and the procedure is documented in the manual, hence the battery could be considered a CRU), the dealership explicitly requested to bring the bike in , for reasons of warranty (the bike is 3 months old, 800 km).

After a battery replacement, my issue is not resolved.

After an outage of 3 months (2.5 months at dealer / Zero EU), I have my bike back.
(recap : SR/F 12V  battery died in the course of one night)

At the dealership, the battery was replaced twice (each dying again within the day), after which the BMS assembly was sent to Zero EU and replaced, also to no avail.

Finally, the bike was shipped to Zero Netherlands, where it received a software update (both MBB and dashboard computer).
Dashboard FW version was upgraded from 5V02 to 6V26.
According to Zero Netherlands, the problem could not be fixed at the dealership (no further details).


How a software upgrade can fix this kind of issue, why that upgrade cannot be executed (eventually remotely by Zero EU) at the dealership, and why not more bikes experience this issue (it's not as if there are lots and lots of hardware/software combo's in the SR/F range), escapes me somewhat.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

While I would have been perfectly able to change the defunct battery myself (and the procedure is documented in the manual, hence the battery could be considered a CRU), the dealership explicitly requested to bring the bike in , for reasons of warranty (the bike is 3 months old, 800 km).

After a battery replacement, my issue is not resolved.

After an outage of 3 months (2.5 months at dealer / Zero EU), I have my bike back.
(recap : SR/F 12V  battery died in the course of one night)

At the dealership, the battery was replaced twice (each dying again within the day), after which the BMS assembly was sent to Zero EU and replaced, also to no avail.

Finally, the bike was shipped to Zero Netherlands, where it received a software update (both MBB and dashboard computer).
Dashboard FW version was upgraded from 5V02 to 6V26.
According to Zero Netherlands, the problem could not be fixed at the dealership (no further details).


How a software upgrade can fix this kind of issue, why that upgrade cannot be executed (eventually remotely by Zero EU) at the dealership, and why not more bikes experience this issue (it's not as if there are lots and lots of hardware/software combo's in the SR/F range), escapes me somewhat.

That means the MBB was probably triggering some parasitic loads that would drain the battery while resting.

I don't like how Zero handled any of this, from the design level that made the MBB critical to battery protection at rest, to the way it was serviced, to the fact that the dealer lacked the ability to go through exercises that Zero privileges for itself.

This increases my wariness about the new platform, which is growing due to other technical issues and issues where Zero has decided to privilege its own knowledge and abilities over dealers and owners. I would like to see something better.

If this is the future of motorcycling, motorcycling will die.

[didierm]

Exactly my opinion, Brian.

I specifically discarded Energica due to (next to the pricing proposition) the very limited number of dealerships (none in Belgium, at the time), and went again for Zero.

My current experience invalidates that train of thought.

The Zero utensils aren't free for the dealerships, neither (and I always had the impression Zero TS could do  a lot remotely).


Of course, my 'evaluation' is based on the provided information (which is, notwithstanding my request : practically none).

Fortunately,  :
- I wasn't harassed because of all the accessories I had/have installed at the 12V connectors (Gerbing, camera, GPS+LiPo, horn, ...) ;
- I experienced a friendly and professional dealership ;
- And : the bike is still absolutely tremendous.

[Auriga]

While I would have been perfectly able to change the defunct battery myself (and the procedure is documented in the manual, hence the battery could be considered a CRU), the dealership explicitly requested to bring the bike in , for reasons of warranty (the bike is 3 months old, 800 km).

After a battery replacement, my issue is not resolved.

After an outage of 3 months (2.5 months at dealer / Zero EU), I have my bike back.
(recap : SR/F 12V  battery died in the course of one night)

At the dealership, the battery was replaced twice (each dying again within the day), after which the BMS assembly was sent to Zero EU and replaced, also to no avail.

Finally, the bike was shipped to Zero Netherlands, where it received a software update (both MBB and dashboard computer).
Dashboard FW version was upgraded from 5V02 to 6V26.
According to Zero Netherlands, the problem could not be fixed at the dealership (no further details).


How a software upgrade can fix this kind of issue, why that upgrade cannot be executed (eventually remotely by Zero EU) at the dealership, and why not more bikes experience this issue (it's not as if there are lots and lots of hardware/software combo's in the SR/F range), escapes me somewhat.

That means the MBB was probably triggering some parasitic loads that would drain the battery while resting.

I don't like how Zero handled any of this, from the design level that made the MBB critical to battery protection at rest, to the way it was serviced, to the fact that the dealer lacked the ability to go through exercises that Zero privileges for itself.

This increases my wariness about the new platform, which is growing due to other technical issues and issues where Zero has decided to privilege its own knowledge and abilities over dealers and owners. I would like to see something better.

If this is the future of motorcycling, motorcycling will die.

I;m not so sure this can't be done at dealers, this sounds more like Zero Netherlands was trying to investigate the cause. Weird issues affecting a limited population intermittently sounds very hard to diagnose at a motorcycle dealer. Especially if the issue was internal to the MBB or related to the software of one/multiple ECUs and their interaction. If it can't be reproduced on a test bike by Zero itself, this sounds like Zero going through extra effort.

Sucks they didn't give you a loner though while they tried to fix this.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

FWIW I don't have any evidence that Energica is better in this regard even with a dealer, other than that they're more aggressive in covering warranty issues, and generally the range of EV manufacturer-owner interactions is much like this. Everyone who has knowledge about their systems seems to be privileged by the manufacturer.

The Zero FST platform is largely good. The manufacturer needs to act qualitatively differently to make these bikes easier to keep on the road, though.

[centra12]

The problem with the 12 volt battery is common to all manufacturers. The batteries are underchallenged because they are always full. Software-wise it would be no problem to discharge the battery.
But the battery is necessary to meet the new safety standards because the HV-System is completely decoupled from the body and therefore extremely safe.
My battery of the C is over 4 years old and is still fit. But I also service it every 14 days with an RC charger. It is an automatic program that discharges and recharges the battery.
But financially it does not pay off because such a battery costs only 20€.

[Crissa]

Zero describes a process of cycling the battery, but they are still a fallible part with moving chemicals.

-Crissa

[didierm]

Zero describes a process of cycling the battery, but they are still a fallible part with moving chemicals.

Two replacement batteries failing in the same way ?
Looks to me the problem is to be found elsewhere, not with the batteries.

Notwithstanding, do you by any chance have a reference to Zero's cycling procedure ? Thanks.

[Crissa]

Zero describes a process of cycling the battery, but they are still a fallible part with moving chemicals.

Two replacement batteries failing in the same way ?
Looks to me the problem is to be found elsewhere, not with the batteries.

I would agree.  Given that the board wasn't responding to update requests, it sounds like the software was corrupted.

My reference is comments made in regard to the battery in the manual and for keeping it in long-term storage.  They say it turns on and off and requires the battery to be connected.

-Crissa

[centra12]

Zero could have at least installed a battery with BMS. With any problem, the original is scrap if it is below 10 volts.

Also a readiness to drive in case of problems would be 100% possible.