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[MikeL]

To be fair, that's part of the H-D experience. Most owners never leave their bikes stock since the bikes fit such a narrow demographic, physically. You almost have to swap out bars, seats, and pegs/floorboards to fine tune the riding position...especially on the bigger tourers. On top of that, I would also argue "performance" upgrades are part of the HD ownership experience as well. You almost need to, especially on the larger bikes.

Exactly this. Honestly it's fun to wrench on them in the garage (where I can). I leave the technical stuff to the professional mechanics.

[DonTom]

When it comes to making 55 years of bad business decisions, it is tough to be Harley Davidson.

I remember when the Sears store in San Mateo (on El Camino across from the Hillsdale Mall) used to sell those little made in Italy (IIRC) Harleys.

For only a few hundred bucks.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

To be fair, that's part of the H-D experience. Most owners never leave their bikes stock since the bikes fit such a narrow demographic, physically. You almost have to swap out bars, seats, and pegs/floorboards to fine tune the riding position...especially on the bigger tourers. On top of that, I would also argue "performance" upgrades are part of the HD ownership experience as well. You almost need to, especially on the larger bikes.

But of all the bikes I have owned, my Harley is the ONLY bike I have not had to change the horn. It's loud enough as is.

BTW, when they first designed the 2017 M8 engine (as my Harley has), they decided these engines were way too smooth. So they removed the 100% balancing and replaced it with 75 % to put in a little vibration so people would "know they are on a motorcycle."

As if a touring bike could be too smooth.

Likewise, they found the LW too quiet. It needed to have more noise.

There are three ways to do things.

1. The wrong way.
2. The correct way.
3. The Harley way.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MikeL]

Likewise, they found the LW too quiet. It needed to have more noise.

Are you talking about the gear setup they decided to go with or the vibration they added? You can have the vibration function turned off at the dealership and it has two settings at home. From those who have tested the bike it sounds like the vibration aspect is kinda nice actually. And not as annoying as you may think. But we will all find out soon!

[DonTom]

Are you talking about the gear setup they decided to go with or the vibration they added? You can have the vibration function turned off at the dealership and it has two settings at home. From those who have tested the bike it sounds like the vibration aspect is kinda nice actually. And not as annoying as you may think. But we will all find out soon!

Did they add vibration into the LW s they did with my Road Glide? I thought they only induced noise.  But I agree we have to try it to know if we like it. My Harley Road Glide has a very nice feel to it, not at all harsh (unlike all other Harleys that I have ridden).  But I am very curious what the 100% balanced one would feel like.

I have a difficult time believing a large touring motorcycle can be too smooth but without being able to try such and compare, I really cannot be sure.  The same goes for the LW.

-Don- Reno, NV

[JaimeC]

Are you talking about the gear setup they decided to go with or the vibration they added? You can have the vibration function turned off at the dealership and it has two settings at home. From those who have tested the bike it sounds like the vibration aspect is kinda nice actually. And not as annoying as you may think. But we will all find out soon!

Did they add vibration into the LW s they did with my Road Glide? I thought they only induced noise.  But I agree we have to try it to know if we like it. My Harley Road Glide has a very nice feel to it, not at all harsh (unlike all other Harleys that I have ridden).  But I am very curious what the 100% balanced one would feel like.

I have a difficult time believing a large touring motorcycle can be too smooth but without being able to try such and compare, I really cannot be sure.  The same goes for the LW.

-Don- Reno, NV

From what I've read, when the bike is on, but NOT moving, it emits a "pulsing" sensation to let you know it is turned on and something will happen if you twist the right grip.  That's actually NOT a bad idea...

[DonTom]

From what I've read, when the bike is on, but NOT moving, it emits a "pulsing" sensation to let you know it is turned on and something will happen if you twist the right grip.  That's actually NOT a bad idea...

I think only the Zeros have no indication. My Energica has a "GO" and up arrow light that tells me the bike is ready.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BigPoppa]

I think the haptic feedback at idle is both good and bad.

Good from the sense that anything to help you realize your electric is still on isn't bad, especially for those coming from gas bikes. Personally, I still find I need to ensure I'm in the "electric" frame of mind when I ride my electric vs riding my gas bike.
Bad from the sense that it worries me that a potential owner would be so out of touch to not pick up on the other visual clues that their electric is still on and ready to go, even at a stop. It's never been an issue for me on my electric. I don't even look down at the dash when stopped. I trust that the bike is still on, especially since the key on my Energica is stiff and there's no mistakenly turning it off. I also trust the bike enough that I'm not worried about it inexplicably shutting off. Maybe that was a concern raised with the LiveWires during the early prototype feedback demo rides?

[DonTom]

I think the haptic feedback at idle is both good and bad.

Good from the sense that anything to help you realize your electric is still on isn't bad, especially for those coming from gas bikes. Personally, I still find I need to ensure I'm in the "electric" frame of mind when I ride my electric vs riding my gas bike.
Bad from the sense that it worries me that a potential owner would be so out of touch to not pick up on the other visual clues that their electric is still on and ready to go, even at a stop. It's never been an issue for me on my electric. I don't even look down at the dash when stopped. I trust that the bike is still on, especially since the key on my Energica is stiff and there's no mistakenly turning it off. I also trust the bike enough that I'm not worried about it inexplicably shutting off. Maybe that was a concern raised with the LiveWires during the early prototype feedback demo rides?

But on your electric, how often have you reached for the clutch at a stop? Or not put in the clutch with an ICE bike? I have done a few of each.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

I think the haptic feedback at idle is both good and bad.

Good from the sense that anything to help you realize your electric is still on isn't bad, especially for those coming from gas bikes. Personally, I still find I need to ensure I'm in the "electric" frame of mind when I ride my electric vs riding my gas bike.
Bad from the sense that it worries me that a potential owner would be so out of touch to not pick up on the other visual clues that their electric is still on and ready to go, even at a stop. It's never been an issue for me on my electric. I don't even look down at the dash when stopped. I trust that the bike is still on, especially since the key on my Energica is stiff and there's no mistakenly turning it off. I also trust the bike enough that I'm not worried about it inexplicably shutting off. Maybe that was a concern raised with the LiveWires during the early prototype feedback demo rides?

But on your electric, how often have you reached for the clutch at a stop? Or not put in the clutch with an ICE bike? I have done a few of each.

-Don-  Reno, NV

It has never been a problem for me and all of my other motorcycles are ICE.

[Crissa]

Zeros have a green symbol on the dash to indicate they're active.  There's a red symbol if any kill switches are active.

I've gotten into the practice of hitting the throttle kill-switch when I'm pushing it around in a parking spot after seeing a vid of a lady flipping a scooter she'd accidentally left active!

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Zeros have a green symbol on the dash to indicate they're active.  There's a red symbol if any kill switches are active.

Oh, I forgot about that little green circle on the Zeros. Kinda difficult to notice compared to my Energica with the big "GO" and up arrow, which is difficult to miss.


-Don- Reno, NV

[JaimeC]

Zeros have a green symbol on the dash to indicate they're active.  There's a red symbol if any kill switches are active.

Oh, I forgot about that little green circle on the Zeros. Kinda difficult to notice compared to my Energica with the big "GO" and up arrow, which is difficult to miss.


-Don- Reno, NV

Yeah, the green light was a LITTLE confusing at first.  On an ICE bike, a green light on the dash typically means the bike is in neutral...