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Author Topic: My charging cable solution  (Read 1028 times)

DonTom

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2020, 08:59:43 AM »

"GFCI detect current going to ground instead of neutral, and the Zero would be conducting to ground, and would automatically trip the interrupt.  Else the interrupt wouldn't function."

I had that misconception as well, but I get it now. Ground wires never carry current, including on the Zero. They're only there in case of a short to chassis.

GFCI doesn't even have a connection to ground. It adds together all the current in the current-carrying wires and requires the sum to be zero. The current-carrying wires are hot and neutral (120v), or two hots and neutral (240v). In your case, neutral is not connected, so it's just the two hots (240v).

One caveat: I've seen posts here that Zeros not uncommonly trip GFCI.
You have the correct  idea, but they don't require zero current  to not trip. 5 mA (0.005 amp) differential or so and all is fine, much above that, it will trip. IIRC, older GF protection was 30 ma to trip (the first ones designed, many years ago). I am not so sure it was such a great idea to make them as sensitive as 5 ma these days, as that causes many things to trip it, including our Zeros (sometimes). A few ma leakage  with AC is rather common for one reason or another. Can also sometimes be tripped with electrical noise. They are not perfect when they are so sensitive.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:52:26 AM by DonTom »
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

ESokoloff

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2020, 10:32:35 AM »

Crissa, a few observations.....

2 phase power is from a bygone Era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-phase_electric_power
Your confusing it with single (split) phase.

A GFI measures any Delta amps between current carrying conductors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device
A GFI device on a 220v split phase power supply does not need a neutral but ALL circuits need a  proper ground.

On a North American 220v circuit there is no Neutral & thus not used/applicable in these circuits.

Your switch that you call 2P2T is most likely DPST (double pole, single throw).

If your using 220v to charge your bike, (I believe the stock charger will Accommodate 110 or 220) the amperage will be half that of 110 so #10 likely is overkill.

For what it’s worth I’m using a GFI outlet at work to charge (110v) & the only issue I've had was when plunging in one morning I inadvertently pushed the trip bottom attempting to plug in. Got to take a nap before heading home that afternoon  :(
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:13:24 AM by ESokoloff »
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR

DonTom

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2020, 10:56:03 AM »

A GFI device on a 220v split phase power supply does not need a neutral but ALL circuits need a  proper ground.
A clarification there is needed.

If you're talking about legal stuff, perhaps that is  true everywhere, that "codes" these days require grounds for safety.

Otherwise the opposite is true, NO circuits need a ground. Absolutely none at all. All any circuit needs is a RETURN path. That does NOT ever  have to be a ground, but of course return circuits can be grounds or even a single ground for many circuits.

I have noticed on my Zero motorcycles, the headlamp negative is NOT grounded anywhere and you will measure zero volts on the headlamp hot to ground when the lamp is on nice and bright. It runs it's own negative wires for the 12 volt stuff, not grounded anywhere.

AFAIK, there are NO  grounds in EVs for the battery  as that is one place grounds can be more dangerous than not having a ground. A ground for while  charging, however, is the norm, but again only for safety.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
2020 Energica EVA SS9
2023 Energica Experia LE
2023 Zero DSR/X

ESokoloff

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2020, 11:11:50 AM »

Yes the ground is for safety & actually if the 110 plug is polarized a ground may not be required. 
Also forgot if the device is double insulated a ground may not be required too.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:18:37 AM by ESokoloff »
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR

Crissa

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2020, 01:45:06 PM »

Yes, I named the switch wrong.

All the GFCI I could find needed a neutral.  Finding 250v okay fixtures was a pain.  I see the return path now is the other hot, that makes more sense ^-^

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

Curt

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Re: My charging cable solution
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2020, 02:12:22 PM »

You have the correct  idea, but they don't require zero current  to not trip. 5 mA (0.005 amp) differential or so and all is fine, much above that, it will trip.

I thought that was obvious enough. After all, zero current literally means not a single electron could be misplaced.  ;)
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