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[dalamario]

I'd rather discuss how Zero motorcycles can go dark. This relates to the "ignition" lock problem.

Wow, well I don't hang out here much anymore, but this is sounds exactly like the randomly intermittent "bike completely dies while driving down the road" failure I have been having. At first it seemed it only happened at low speed, but then it happened on the freeway, where thankfully I was able to pull over safely. So is it the ignition key switch contacts? or a variety of problems? Is there a fix? The bike has died three times in one day, then gone weeks with no problem, then dies... etc. Turn the bike on and off on the side of the road and it fires up and runs like nothing happened. Logs don't seem to say anything (?) I have not brought it into the dealership for this, because it seems like a black hole.

I probably had it happen yesterday evening. My FXS power cycled by itself when I was at a stop. The log reported a CPU soft reset:

Code: [Select]

07539     02/04/2019 17:15:17   Riding                     PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.732V, MotAmps:  46, BattAmps:   1, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  16C, CtrlTemp:   9C, AmbTemp:   6C, MotRPM:  16, Odo: 1407km
 07540     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Power Off                  Key Switch
 07541     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Sevcon Turned Off   
 07542     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Module 00                  vmod: 115.671V, batt curr: 0A
 07543     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07544     02/04/2019 17:15:52   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 07545     02/04/2019 17:15:52   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 07546     02/04/2019 17:15:53   Turning OFF DCDC. Flags: 0x00   
 07547     02/04/2019 17:15:53   CPU Soft Reset:            Power Down Interrupted by Key On     
 07548                       0   DEBUG: Reset: External   
 07549                       0   BMS Reset                  Unknown
 07550                       0   Key On   
 07551                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Running mode   
 07552                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07553                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07554                       0   Turning ON DCDC   
 07555                       0   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 07556                       0   Module 00                  serial: 18gb0172,  vmod: 115.683V
 07557     02/04/2019 17:15:56   Sevcon Turned On   
 07558     02/04/2019 17:15:57   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 07559     02/04/2019 17:15:57   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 07560     02/04/2019 17:15:58   Module 00                  vmod: 115.7 maxsys: 115.7 minsys: 115.7 diff: 0.000 vcap: 106.062 prechg: 91%
 07561     02/04/2019 17:15:58   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 07562     02/04/2019 17:15:58   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 07563     02/04/2019 17:15:58   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 07564     02/04/2019 17:16:05   Riding                     PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.692V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  19C, CtrlTemp:   9C, AmbTemp:   6C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 1407km


[Auriga]

I probably had it happen yesterday evening. My FXS power cycled by itself when I was at a stop. The log reported a CPU soft reset:

Code: [Select]

07539     02/04/2019 17:15:17   Riding                     PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.732V, MotAmps:  46, BattAmps:   1, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  16C, CtrlTemp:   9C, AmbTemp:   6C, MotRPM:  16, Odo: 1407km
 07540     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Power Off                  Key Switch
 07541     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Sevcon Turned Off   
 07542     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Module 00                  vmod: 115.671V, batt curr: 0A
 07543     02/04/2019 17:15:52   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07544     02/04/2019 17:15:52   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 07545     02/04/2019 17:15:52   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 07546     02/04/2019 17:15:53   Turning OFF DCDC. Flags: 0x00   
 07547     02/04/2019 17:15:53   CPU Soft Reset:            Power Down Interrupted by Key On     
 07548                       0   DEBUG: Reset: External   
 07549                       0   BMS Reset                  Unknown
 07550                       0   Key On   
 07551                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Running mode   
 07552                       0   Module 00                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07553                       0   Module 01                  vmod: 0V, batt curr: 0A
 07554                       0   Turning ON DCDC   
 07555                       0   Module 00 CAN Link Up   
 07556                       0   Module 00                  serial: 18gb0172,  vmod: 115.683V
 07557     02/04/2019 17:15:56   Sevcon Turned On   
 07558     02/04/2019 17:15:57   Sevcon CAN Link Up   
 07559     02/04/2019 17:15:57   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.   
 07560     02/04/2019 17:15:58   Module 00                  vmod: 115.7 maxsys: 115.7 minsys: 115.7 diff: 0.000 vcap: 106.062 prechg: 91%
 07561     02/04/2019 17:15:58   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed   
 07562     02/04/2019 17:15:58   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2   
 07563     02/04/2019 17:15:58   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3   
 07564     02/04/2019 17:16:05   Riding                     PackTemp: h 16C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.692V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 01, MotTemp:  19C, CtrlTemp:   9C, AmbTemp:   6C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 1407km


I think the key line here is Power Off Key Switch. That means the bike thought you keyed it off. So perhaps your ignition is going bad.

[JaimeC]

In responding to another post (regarding the upcoming SR/F), I just remembered something I DO consider a design defect:

Buell's XB and 1125R motorcycles came equipped with a Goodyear drive belt under constant tension (Harleys come equipped with Gates belts that are under varying tension depending on suspension load).  Those belts were designed to last the lifetime of the bike and never required adjustment.

Zero's belts are also under constant tension since the drive pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot.  Why should they require adjustment?  Why is there even an adjustment setting?  The electric motor provides far less "shocks" to the drive belt than Buell's big, thumping V-Twin engines.  Barring damage, I can't understand why Zero's belts shouldn't also last the life of the motorcycle.

And speaking of "barring damage," why doesn't Zero provide adequate protection of their belt by providing both upper and LOWER belt guards??

[Curt]

The belt width has been increased on recent models. This should result in a significant, non-linear improvement in belt life.

A belt guard might be nice if it was not too ugly. However, for the street, it's just not that critical, and for dirt, it would still be wholly inadequate.

I found the factory tensioning to be 4 times tighter than spec, and was a bit surprised/annoyed/glad to adjust it. Because the setting is rather sensitive, it is impossible to just do away with the adjustment without some form of tensioning.

The Buell solution (shown below) indeed looks very elegant. On a Zero it might even alleviate the need for chain on the dirt! But the extra tensioner wheel and spring and beefy brackets would come at significant cost and added weight. And if your belt did snap or lose teeth, you'd need to test the tensioner to rule it out as the cause.

[JaimeC]

That tensioner wheel on the Buell is fixed.  It is designed to keep the tension constant because the output pulley is NOT in line with the swingarm pivot.  That means that as the suspension is compressed, the output pulley moves further away from the input pulley increasing tension, whereas when the suspension is unloaded, the output pulley moves closer to the input pulley reducing tension.  This is what happens on a Harley Davidson or an Indian.  The pulley on the Buell was located in such a manner that no matter the suspension load, the tension on the belt remained constant.

That tensioner wheel is not needed on the Zero because the input pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot.  As I mentioned above, that means no matter the suspension load, there is no change to the tension on the belt; it is always the same.  And a lower guard is DEFINITELY important on the street unless you live somewhere they keep the streets cleaned of ALL debris at all times.  I know for a fact that is NOT the case in New York (had to replace a windshield on my car because of a rock thrown up by a car in front of me).

[Curt]

That tensioner wheel is not needed on the Zero because the input pulley is directly inline with the swingarm pivot.

If Buell's pulley was directly in line with the pivot, they would leave out the tensioner, and they would add a screw adjuster. Some form of adjustment is absolutely required. The tolerances are too tight not to; a fraction of a turn on the adjustment screw makes a dramatic difference in tension because there is next to no stretch. If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.

And a lower guard is DEFINITELY important on the street unless you live somewhere they keep the streets cleaned of ALL debris at all times.  I know for a fact that is NOT the case in New York (had to replace a windshield on my car because of a rock thrown up by a car in front of me).

I'm comparing my FX and KTM right now. The KTM has an exquisitely designed heavy lower guard, as it needs to plow through deep dirt, mud and sand all day. On the FX a guard would have to be quite large because of the large sprocket. Maybe Zero could have an accessory that bolts into the bottom of the swingarm. But if one sticks to pavement and occasional gravel, the chance of a rock getting in there is small.

[JaimeC]

If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.

Never happened, and I've got lots of friends with Buells still riding on their original belts and swingarms too. 

[Curt]

If a manufacturer was stupid enough to leave out tension adjustment, they would inevitably have to recall and replace all the swingarms.

Never happened, and I've got lots of friends with Buells still riding on their original belts and swingarms too.

What you said makes little sense because Buells clearly do have tension adjustment, automatic by spring, identical concept to automotive accessory belts.

I took your initial comment as meaning no form of tension adjustment is needed, which is not true. If you were arguing that Zero should use an automatic tensioner wheel, you didn't say that... and I already explained why that's less necessary plus doesn't justify the cost.