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[Richard230]

As you all know, EV manufacturers, such as Zero, are always stating the expected life of their battery packs by giving either miles ridden or by the number of recharges (such as 1200 for Energica or 3000 for Zero) before the battery pack declines to 80% capacity. My question is: How can you tell when the pack is actually declining due to age? In the case of Zero will the maximum charge on the instrument display stop at less than 100%? Or will it continue to show a 100% charge, but not provide the same travel range as when new? Or will the maximum voltage of the pack when fully charge decline?

Zero's app used to show the battery capacity in kWh, which I really appreciated, but last year it was neutered and now does not indicate kWh, so it is hard to judge how the battery is performing as it ages. Does anyone have any ideas for evaluating how the battery pack is aging now that Zero's app is apparently hiding that information from us?

[DPsSRnSD]

I think you need to monitor for a change in behavior. Depending on the issue, the battery might not charge to full voltage, it might show full voltage before receiving adequate energy (kWh), it might discharge faster than expected especially under a heavy load, it could catch on fire, etc.

[Scotchman]

I don't think the Zero's battery will catch on fire as part of its normal aging process.

[Lenny]

The only option to get real data is to monitor the amount of energy going into your bike while charging (assuming you always start to charge with the same pack voltage for a good comparison). Max. Voltage will not change and SOC will always go to 100%. What you're looking for is the so called SOH - state of health. Some manufacturers do estimate it in their BMS as well as it also monitors the energy flowing into and out of the battery(I think Nissan and Renault do it in their cars). Zeros BMS is also trying to estimate the real pack capacity, but as many of us have experienced already they have their issues with it.

So if you want to track it, get an energy meter, note down the battery voltage and which you start charging, note down the final voltage after charging and note down the amount of energy which has flown into you battery. Do that a lot of times and some day you might see a trend.

[Richard230]

The only option to get real data is to monitor the amount of energy going into your bike while charging (assuming you always start to charge with the same pack voltage for a good comparison). Max. Voltage will not change and SOC will always go to 100%. What you're looking for is the so called SOH - state of health. Some manufacturers do estimate it in their BMS as well as it also monitors the energy flowing into and out of the battery(I think Nissan and Renault do it in their cars). Zeros BMS is also trying to estimate the real pack capacity, but as many of us have experienced already they have their issues with it.

So if you want to track it, get an energy meter, note down the battery voltage and which you start charging, note down the final voltage after charging and note down the amount of energy which has flown into you battery. Do that a lot of times and some day you might see a trend.

That makes sense. I have two Kill-a-Watt meters. Of course those things are not all that accurate and the voltage displayed on the Zero app also likely has some slop in the display. But what you suggest should be able to uncover a general trend without doing anything more technical.

[Lenny]

That makes sense. I have two Kill-a-Watt meters. Of course those things are not all that accurate and the voltage displayed on the Zero app also likely has some slop in the display. But what you suggest should be able to uncover a general trend without doing anything more technical.

Yes thats correct. To get the precise voltage of the bike, you can either use the app Zero Voltage or use a mulitmeter and measure on the Anderson port. Furthermore for my suggested method we also have to assume a constant efficiency of the onboard charger, which might change over the years (although I don't expect that to be significant). As I said, this would be to uncover a general trend. For more precise monitoring devices like the CycleAnalyst might be a better option.

[dennis-NL]

I allready did it with charging at work and knowing how much kW it delivers to my Zero.

I know now after 631 charge cycles that my Zero DS 2013 with a 12,5kW battery has actually 11,4kW because it was empty (91V in app and BMS shutdown my motor at 60m of the charging station.... .

Mostly over a year now I charge from 97V till 116V two times a day not showing worse results so far.

[Richard230]

I allready did it with charging at work and knowing how much kW it delivers to my Zero.

I know now after 631 charge cycles that my Zero DS 2013 with a 12,5kW battery has actually 11,4kW because it was empty (91V in app and BMS shutdown my motor at 60m of the charging station.... .

Mostly over a year now I charge from 97V till 116V two times a day not showing worse results so far.

Well, if your 2013 Zero can charge to 116V it is doing better than my 2018 Zero, which stops at 115V when fully charged. 

[dennis-NL]

I allready did it with charging at work and knowing how much kW it delivers to my Zero.

I know now after 631 charge cycles that my Zero DS 2013 with a 12,5kW battery has actually 11,4kW because it was empty (91V in app and BMS shutdown my motor at 60m of the charging station.... .

Mostly over a year now I charge from 97V till 116V two times a day not showing worse results so far.

Well, if your 2013 Zero can charge to 116V it is doing better than my 2018 Zero, which stops at 115V when fully charged. 

Well, I must admit it's mostly 116V, but the 115V also, like today actually ;-)

[dukecola]

Not closely related but how I noticed my Chevy Volt battery's decline over the 5 yrs may be similar. When new, I could go 43 mi on a charge, often 45+ and occasionally 50-52mi. This was easy to track because when the batteries reached their lower limit, the car's engine turned on. For first 3 yrs, there was no change, but by yrs 4 and 5, that normal 43mi had decreased to 32-35 with a rare 40, and never hitting 50.  Over that time I made 250 trips to see my dad, a 38mi round trip.  First 3 yrs I always arrived home with 5 mi remaining. By year 4 I couldn't even make it home without the engine turning on. This would be harder to calculate on a Zero as you would rarely run the batteries to the lower limit to be able to nail the exact loss of range..

[dennis-NL]

...
This would be harder to calculate on a Zero as you would rarely run the batteries to the lower limit to be able to nail the exact loss of range..

My commute is on the limit also because I cruise at 128km/h were it's legally allowed on my commute.

I often arrive with 92V and the max speed possible/allowed by BMS is arround 20km/h.
 

At 91V it really shuts down.
So I will keep monitoring, but so far it looks good.

[Ser15]

Hello I have a Zero sr 2014 with power pack . Now it have 88,000 kilometers on odometer. About 2 months ago I began to notice a drop in power, I could not reach the 165 k/h that I had previously reached easily. It reaches 145 k/h maximum. When reviewing with the dealer, signs of aging were detected and a change of the main pack was authorized by guarantee. Now I am waiting for the pack and today hardly reaches 120. Exceptional torque no longer exists and is like driving in echo mode all the time. I hope my experience will help you

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