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[marsfix]

Hi EMF Folk

My Zero FX is 2 days old, and a rarity on the Southern tip of Africa (sht hle country) but I've been an EV nut for years and a motorcycle nut for even longer.  I've trolled this site a bit and can't find the topic/answer I'm looking for so excuse this post if it's already been addressed.

As almost every Tesla owner knows they should only fully charge the vehicle if that is what's required for the next trip.  If a full charge isn't specifically required JB Straubel, for instance, has suggested charging no more than 70% of capacity for daily use.   

(This is generally true for all Liion batteries.  There are apps to keep a laptop's battery between 40 and 75%, say, which can result in the battery life being extended by a factor of 4 rather than keeping it fully charged whilst plugged in.)

Tesla's interface makes this dead easy to do.  But the only(?) way to do this for a Zero would be to physically stop the charging before it reaching full charge.  It could be done by using a plug timer.  Does anyone on this forum do this?

The timer could also facilitate ensuring that on those days when a full charge is required it is timed to reach 100% comfortably before you need the bike, not days in advance, for instance.

I realise this sounds a bit anal when mixed with the freedom of biking, still, if the best Liion battery technicians in the world are recommending it it seems foolish not to consider it if it can easily suit your lifestyle..

any thoughts on this?

[MrDude_1]

My thought is... dont worry about it.
seriously.
It already has a small enough battery, and I assume you want to just jump on the bike and ride it whenever you want.
Just dont worry about it.
The odds of you keeping the bike for over 5-8 years (where you would start to see any difference in treatment) without accident or selling it are very slim.
Even if you did and the battery was now crap, by that time you should be able to get them cheaper, both new and used.

So dont stress about it. Just enjoy it.

[Doug S]

...(sht hle country)...

On behalf of many, many Americans, I apologize in the strongest possible terms for that quote. A huge number of us cringed as badly as you did when we heard it.

As far as battery maintenance is concerned, I'm with MrDude. There seem to be a lot of people stressing about maximizing battery life, and it's just not necessary. The battery pack is rated for 2500 full-charge cycles, which is nearly seven years of doing a full charge EVERY SINGLE DAY -- and then it's still got 80% of its original capacity left! Personally I think this is pretty conservative. There are several people around, including me, with lots of mileage on their bikes (I've got 41,000 miles), and no sign of capacity dropping at all.

I know people are going to do what they're going to do, and they should, but I still highly recommend using the bike however you want to use it, and keeping it plugged in the rest of the time. The daily convenience factor more than makes up for any minuscule improvement you might see in battery life.

[MrDude_1]

Also to note.... 100% charged according to your zero bike is NOT 100% of the battery full charge.

Fully charged, it would be 4.20v * 28 cells. 117.6 volts.
instead, Zero charges it to 4.15-ish  4.15*28... 116.2v

So it is ALREADY not maxing out the battery. Its one of the reasons the battery lasts so long.

[Richard230]

Also to note.... 100% charged according to your zero bike is NOT 100% of the battery full charge.

Fully charged, it would be 4.20v * 28 cells. 117.6 volts.
instead, Zero charges it to 4.15-ish  4.15*28... 116.2v

So it is ALREADY not maxing out the battery. Its one of the reasons the battery lasts so long.

Or in the case of my 2018 S after the latest firmware update, 115 volts. 

[MrDude_1]

Also to note.... 100% charged according to your zero bike is NOT 100% of the battery full charge.

Fully charged, it would be 4.20v * 28 cells. 117.6 volts.
instead, Zero charges it to 4.15-ish  4.15*28... 116.2v

So it is ALREADY not maxing out the battery. Its one of the reasons the battery lasts so long.

Or in the case of my 2018 S after the latest firmware update, 115 volts. 

the firmware does not set the charger output voltage.
Either you have it saying 115v when its not (offset error) or you have it charging too low (charger issue).

they may have 115v SAYING 100% on the dash, but if you think about it, if they didnt hold 100% until it fell a bit, it would never read 100% when you unplugged it.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

On the plus side, the FX onboard charger only draws 7A at 110V, and 4A at 220V, so most consumer outlet timers should be able to manage controlling its load without any major concerns.

So, there's no harm in trying although I agree with above comments that you should mostly not worry about it (except long-term storage like more than a week at a time where 70% is a good target).

If you do, focus on a timer that is easy to adjust and built for operating under outdoor loads and protecting against faults.

[marsfix]

My thought is... dont worry about it.
seriously.
It already has a small enough battery, and I assume you want to just jump on the bike and ride it whenever you want.
Just dont worry about it.
The odds of you keeping the bike for over 5-8 years (where you would start to see any difference in treatment) without accident or selling it are very slim.
Even if you did and the battery was now crap, by that time you should be able to get them cheaper, both new and used.

So dont stress about it. Just enjoy it.

Thanks.  That is solid advice.  Although I am going to take Zero's more recent advice of unplugging once fully charged IF I happen to walk past the bike at that stage ;-)

[marsfix]

...(sht hle country)...

On behalf of many, many Americans, I apologize in the strongest possible terms for that quote. A huge number of us cringed as badly as you did when we heard it.

As far as battery maintenance is concerned, I'm with MrDude. There seem to be a lot of people stressing about maximizing battery life, and it's just not necessary. The battery pack is rated for 2500 full-charge cycles, which is nearly seven years of doing a full charge EVERY SINGLE DAY -- and then it's still got 80% of its original capacity left! Personally I think this is pretty conservative. There are several people around, including me, with lots of mileage on their bikes (I've got 41,000 miles), and no sign of capacity dropping at all.

I know people are going to do what they're going to do, and they should, but I still highly recommend using the bike however you want to use it, and keeping it plugged in the rest of the time. The daily convenience factor more than makes up for any minuscule improvement you might see in battery life.

Haha, too kind of you.  And absolutely no apology required (unless you feel responsible for Trump ;-)  Trump, it seems, was sent to entertain most of the English speaking world with his buffoonery and, at this, he's doing a disturbingly good job.  Of course there are plenty of countries that qualify for the sht hle moniker though the poor folk living at the bottom of those ditches certainly don't need their noses rubbed in it.

Agreed, 2500 cycles is more than I'll ever use and with battery density increasing inexorably who knows what options will be available in 7 years time.

So, thanks, I'll do my damnedest to stop worrying about it.

[marsfix]

Also to note.... 100% charged according to your zero bike is NOT 100% of the battery full charge.

Fully charged, it would be 4.20v * 28 cells. 117.6 volts.
instead, Zero charges it to 4.15-ish  4.15*28... 116.2v

So it is ALREADY not maxing out the battery. Its one of the reasons the battery lasts so long.

This is very interesting and reassuring.  Cheaper cell phone manufacturers, for instance, strive for good initial reviews/specs rather than battery longevity so they tend to charge much closer to the 4.20v level. It makes all the sense in the world that Zero/Tesla etc wouldn't do this with much bigger and more expensive batteries:  lose some range but gain longevity and reputation.

[marsfix]

On the plus side, the FX onboard charger only draws 7A at 110V, and 4A at 220V, so most consumer outlet timers should be able to manage controlling its load without any major concerns.

So, there's no harm in trying although I agree with above comments that you should mostly not worry about it (except long-term storage like more than a week at a time where 70% is a good target).

If you do, focus on a timer that is easy to adjust and built for operating under outdoor loads and protecting against faults.

pedantic question:  why would it draw 110W less in some countries?   7A x 110V =  770 Watts vs 4A x 220V = 880 Watts.   Or is that just roughly 7A and 4A?

Easy to adjust timer would be essential.  My experience is that mechanical ones are generally easier to use than electronic ones.  Perhaps I just haven't stumbled across the right electronic one.  Though, easiest by far would be something like Tesla's phone app.. 

[NEW2elec]

Most of those little timers here in the US are really just ment for small draw electronics. I had a "Kill A Watt" meter that I was using to watch my charging but it got fried after a few months.  The lower amp draw off of your 220V outlet should help but keep an eye on it and feel it to see if it's warming too much.

I agree it's hard to tell what is best as companies want to err on the side of caution always but some people's data show that the opposite is true.  Not just with full charging but fast charging as well.