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[Shadow]

some firmware improvements which add protection of the Powertank for example and it disconnects if any charging power to the whole system goes over a certain limit.

That just dashed the hopes of people installing diginow chargers in place of the stock charger and making room for a power tank add-on latter. It would be good to know the "certain limit" mentioned. I wonder if it would be a setting inside the MBB or Controller on bikes with powertanks?

Yep. It could be done safely but having heard the reasons you would have to coordinate more tightly than what you get signaling the +5Vdc AUX connector charging line. Such an interface exists for the stock S/DS pan charger via CANBus wiring. In a system where two mismatched Ah batteries are receiving current from a single source, one battery will have a lower internal resistance than the other and take more power. If that battery module BMS sees a total system input greater than four QuiQ and one Calex (?) you're firmly entered into unknown territory in so far as Zero Motorcycles has qualified. You don't get to pick and choose the internal resistance. That's my understanding of things.

Since the bike firmware alone doesn't allow throttle run when Powertank is at a higher voltage than the Monolith, and doesn't charge the Monolith when the Powertank is at a lower voltage than the Monolith, and none of the aftermarket fast chargers have CANbus communication or really any kind of smarts that might be user friendly (or just plain figure it out without the user to cut back power when Powertank is only battery allowed by firmware to charge), it's a bloody mess trying to go anywhere without a much higher level of sophistication.

[togo]

Once there's a voltage imbalance, the flow to the lower voltage battery increases.  Differeing internal resistance is only a temporary issue, I think.

[togo]

One takeaway from the Q&A we had (which was great!):

Anyone who is spreading FUD about aftermarket charging voiding your warranty is to talk to Aaron Cheatham.

The way I understood what was said: Zero will not cover *damage done* by aftermarket charging but they will not use aftermarket charging per se as an excuse to get out of warranty coverage.

[Electric Cowboy]

There is a lot of great info in this thread, but also... Sadly there is a LOT of misinformation as well

I need to clarify about the power tank stuff. DIGINOW CHARGERS WORK GREAT WITH POWER TANKS.

The issues being described by Shattow are not related to cell mismatch either. There is an issue with stock Zeros and power tanks when the bikes are at a low SOC. If you turn the bike off without charging the power tank will come on first and not let the bike go. I explainerd this quite clearly to Shattow when he got his power tank. I explained it EXTRA CLEARLY because he has the latest firmware which I think exacerbates the issue due to amp hour miscalculation. But I am not sure on that yet.

I just tested Shattows bike which has a 2.8kw powertank and 9.9kw of charging and followed the basic best practices of having a power tank and everything worked great. 130 miles of testing and super charging.

The basic rules of having a power tank no matter WHAT type of charger you have is to not turn the bike off at a low SOC without charging or without being near a charger, and this is unrelated to if your power tank matches your battery or your charger type.

Now all that said, what Shattow did not mention was that he has a force charge algorithem in his control board which does not give the power tank time to initialize if it gets into some wonky state. So... he is down here to get a production board on his bike.

So please don't let this misinformation prevent you from getting the best possible setup for a Zero, 3 in the pan and a power tank. This is my new personal setup as well. I just rode from LA to Monterey in 8 hours with this setup with a mismatched battery and power tank 2014 PT and 2017 battery, and it worked great. I also have the old firmware.

If anyone has questions please ask me, it's what I'm here for. I know my product, I know Zero Motorcycles and I have a VERY strong interest in making the best products for them.

[togo]

Brandon you should write things down more.

Document what you do.

Otherwise what happens is people put their best recollections of what they think they remember that you might have said and sometimes you omit details when you talk to one person because you told somebody else and it's hard to keep track of what you told to who and then you have to complain about misinformation in the forums.

[togo]

Brandon is sort of running on fumes right now because doesn't get to sleep anymore with the volume of orders we're facing. Currently the most helpful thing any of us can do is to let him crimp cables in peace and encourage him to get some sleep.

I'll buy that!

[togo]

Oh, MVetter, did you announce that you are joining his team?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

As the person on point for the V1 documentation, V2 needs something at least as rich (especially since I had to be very sensitive about V1's lack of robust protections). Whatever you document will pay off within weeks, just to reduce the overhead of pre-order discussions, but obviously to cut back on post-sales inquiries and support.

Also, none of us know what to write or claim to others on the forums.

[MrDude_1]

Also we're looking into the idea of making a much, much simpler installation for people who opt for 3 chargers in the pan, but it involves a customer lending us their bike with the knowledge we might blow part of it up in testing may need to order replacement parts if our numbers are wrong. But we're pretty sure our numbers are right. 

I really like this idea. I want to be able to point people to you and say you have a product that can just replace the slow charger with a much faster one.

[togo]

Those of you who didn't make it to the factory tour might enjoy the How It's Made episode...